[Ads-l] "Alternative facts" for EOTY

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Sun Jan 29 08:36:06 EST 2017


John King of CNN reports that when he insisted to an unnamed
"administration official" that certain so-called "facts" presented by the
administration were simply untrue, the official replied,

"We don't care what you say. We're louder than you."

Another QOTY?

JL

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Presumably the innovator naively interpreted "history" to mean "truth
> about the past."
>
> JL.
>
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 2:56 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> JL wrote:
>> > Thanks, Garson.
>>
>> You're welcome,
>>
>> > Consider that an entertaining or moralizing "fable" is not quite the
>> same
>> > as a "lie."
>>
>> Yes, I agree that a "fable" and a "lie" are quite distinct. I have
>> grouped quotations using those words into a family because I think it
>> helps to illustrate the evolution of the saying.
>>
>> Your suggestion that there is a connection between the following two
>> statements is valuable although at this time I have not attempted to
>> trace the conjectural transition from the first to the second:
>>
>> "History is a lie agreed upon"
>> "Truth Is a Lie Agreed Upon"
>>
>> Garson
>>
>> > On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> A Washington Post reporter on MSNBC, attempting strict objectivity,
>> >> offhandedly referred to Mr. Trump's "alternative facts" as "mistruths."
>> >>
>> >> JL
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 11:48 AM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
>> >> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> >>> > The Net finds numerous recent posts asserting that leading self-help
>> >>> guru
>> >>> > Friedrich Nietzsche once wrote, "What is the truth but a lie agreed
>> >>> upon?"
>> >>> >
>> >>> > And if a bigshot said it, it must be true.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > GB reveals no authentic attributions to Freddy, and none before
>> 2016.
>> >>>
>> >>> I have examined a family of relayed sayings about historical truth:
>> >>>
>> >>> What Is History But a Fable Agreed Upon?
>> >>> http://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/07/05/fable/
>> >>>
>> >>> [Begin excerpt]
>> >>> Dear Quote Investigator: A popular skeptical viewpoint about history
>> >>> can be expressed in a few different ways:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1) What is history but a fable agreed upon?
>> >>> 2) History is a set of lies agreed upon.
>> >>> 3) History is a set of lies that people have agreed upon.
>> >>> [End excerpt]
>> >>>
>> >>> Garson
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> > A blog site confidently attributes "Truth Is a Lie Agreed Upon" to
>> (wait
>> >>> > for it)..."Abraham Lincoln."
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Cf. the older and ever-popular "History is a lie agreed upon."
>> >>> >
>> >>> > So who, Garson, really introduced the phrase attributed to
>> Nietzsche?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > JL
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Laurence Horn <
>> laurence.horn at yale.edu>
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> > On Jan 24, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > A la "alt right"?
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Joel
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Seems so.  OED, s.v. “alt”:
>> >>> >> Alternative; spec. denoting a version of some cultural phenomenon
>> >>> (orig.
>> >>> >> and esp. music) that is regarded as outside the mainstream of its
>> >>> genre.
>> >>> >> [citing “alt.rock” and “alt country”]
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> So alt facts would be a cultural phenomenon regarded as outside the
>> >>> >> mainstream of the fact genre (in being, well, not true).
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> LH
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >      From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> >>> >> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> >>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 8:02 PM
>> >>> >> > Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "Alternative facts" for EOTY
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > MSNBC is now using the short form "alt facts."
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > JL
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
>> >>> >> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
>> >>> >> > wrote:
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >> Wrong! Wrong!
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> Not a falsehood! It's an important alternate fact.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> Also note my signature line of many years standing.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> JL
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> --
>> >>> >> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
>> the
>> >>> >> truth."
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > --
>> >>> >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
>> the
>> >>> >> truth."
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>> >>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> >>> truth."
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>



-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


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