[Ads-l] "In my room"

Laurence Horn laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Thu Jul 13 21:33:08 EDT 2017


> On Jul 13, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> So it was used everywhere.
> 
> Have you tried OED?
> 
> JL

If you do, you should start at the bottom, or be patient.  (Pepys checks in, as you’ll see.)

P4 in the room of: in the place of, in lieu of, instead of, a person or thing. Also in room of. Cf. Phrases 4a.
 
 (a) Indicating substitution of one person for another (in early use with reference to an office or appointment).

1526   Bible (Tyndale) Matt. ii. f. iii   He herde that Archelaus did raygne in Iury, in the roume off hys father Herode.
1589   W. Wren in R. Hakluyt Princ. Navigations i. 146   So we placed other men in the roomes of those that wee lost.
1620   Bp. J. Hall Honor Married Clergie i. xxiiii. 130   When the Question was of suffecting Amadeus, Duke of Sauoy, a married man, in the roome of Eugenius.
1667   S. Pepys Diary 1 Sept. (1974) VIII. 412   The Atturny-general is made Chief Justice in the room of my Lord Bridgeman.
1709   R. Steele Tatler No. 11. ⁋9   Declared Alderman..in the Room of his Brother,..deceased.
1781   M. J. Armstrong Hist. & Antiq. Norfolk X. 210   Mr. Elisha De Hague was chosen town-clerk, in the room of the late Mr. Francis Wright.
1838   C. Thirlwall Hist. Greece (new ed.) IV. 41   A Spartan named Leon..had taken the command in the room of Pedaritus.
1854   A. E. Baker Gloss. Northamptonshire Words II. (at cited word)   He went in the room of another.
1900   Times 9 Jan. 11/6   The only other business transacted was the admission of Captain Edmund Stanley as City Marshal in the room of Sir Simeon Stuart, resigned.
1945   Times 6 Oct. 6/2   The Princess Royal has appointed Miss Gwynedd Margaret Lloyd to be a Lady in Waiting in the room of the Dowager Lady Lloyd.
1990   A. Burton Cityscapes iv. 45/2   In the room of the sixth poor man and his wife, there shall be one honest poor woman of the said City taken into the Beadhouse.

 
 (b) Indicating substitution of one thing for another. Now rare.

1618   W. Lawson New Orchard & Garden x. 32   An eye or bud, taken..from one tree, and placed in the roome of another eye or bud.
1668   M. Hale Pref. Rolle's Abridgm. 4   It is much out of use, and new Expedients substituted in roome thereof.
1736   Bp. J. Butler Analogy of Relig. i. v. 82   To substitute Judgment in the Room of Sensation.
1749   H. Fielding Tom Jones II. v. iv. 136   You must let me have my old one again, and you may have this in the room on't.  
1846   R. C. Trench Christ the Desire of All Nations i. 19   In the room of shifting cloud-palaces..stands for us a city which hath come down from heaven.
1855   Harper's Mag. July 192/1   Brummell appeared in the Rue St. Jean with a black silk handkerchief in room of his cherished cambric.
1861   F. Hall in Jrnl. Asiatic Soc. Bengal 30 148   After so much destructive criticism, to have little of instantly helpful truth to substitute in the room of what has been swept away.
1914   Dial. Notes 4 79   I gin you jell in room o' plums.

I kind of like the contrast in 9b between “X’s room” and “X’s company”, especially in locutions like “I'd rather have his room than his company"


LH

 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Jim Parish <jparish at siue.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Hm. The narrator of _Roderick Random_ is supposed to be a Scot, and Pepys
>> was a Londoner born and bred.
>> 
>> Jim Parish
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/13/2017 6:18 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm familiar with this from 19th C. Irish English.
>>> 
>>> "In the room of" = 'in place of; instead of'
>>> 
>>> "He shot his true love in the room of a swan." (Old Ballad)
>>> 
>>> (Not in a swan's room, n.b.)
>>> 
>>> JL
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Jim Parish <jparish at siue.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, yes, I'm quite familiar with the song....
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 7/13/2017 5:41 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bV-dWhYklqE
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 13, 2017 6:12 PM, "Jim Parish" <jparish at siue.edu> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> A while back, I was reading Pepys' Diary and was struck by the repeated
>>>>> 
>>>>>> (metaphorical) use of "in my room", where, in my idiolect, "in my
>>>>>> place"
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> even "in my stead" would be more natural. Now, I'm reading _Roderick
>>>>>> Random_, written about eighty years later, and I have encountered the
>>>>>> phrase again.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have never run into the phrase anywhere else, and certainly not in
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> contemporary source. So I'm curious: is this construction still in use
>>>>>> anywhere? Does anyone know when and where it was used?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jim Parish
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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