[Ads-l] No = 'yes; truly'

Thu Oct 26 22:54:29 UTC 2017

Not if you're actually speaking English.

Explain why this is funny:

Q: "Have you no bananas?"

A: "Yes! We have no bananas!"

BTW, I've checked with several other native speakers of my advanced age,
and they all agree that Barron-Lopez's "no" is a logically contradictory
answer in this context.

JL

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:

> I disagree with your first statement. So did the speaker. So no still means
> no.
>
>
>
> DanG
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "It's kind of embarrassing. Isn't it?" = "Don't you agree it's
> > embarrassing?"
> >
> > Regardless, she explicitly agrees with the premise that it's
> embarrassing.
> > "No" must mean "Yes" or "Yes indeed; absolutely." Either that or it's a
> > meaningless expletive.
> >
> > "No" is absurdly out of place by conventional standards.
> >
> > But not by contemporary standards, as this thread shows.
> >
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I don't see where "Don't you agree it's embarrassing?" was asked.
> > >
> > > I see "...it's kind of embarrassing for the Democrats. Isn't it?", and
> in
> > > that context I think the answer makes sense.
> > >
> > > DanG
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> > wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I don't follow you.
> > > >
> > > > The question to be answered is, "Don't you agree it's embarrassing?"
> > > Ans.:
> > > > "No, it *is* embarrassing."
> > > >
> > > > JL
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Laurence Horn <
> > laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Aha.  I missed the contrastive stress on *is* on first reading.  On
> > > > second
> > > > > reading: No, I agree with Dan.
> > > > >
> > > > > LH
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 26, 2017, at 11:45 AM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I read it differently.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The question was, " it's kind of embarrassing for the Democrats.
> > > Isn't
> > > > > it?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The answer was, "No, it *is* embarrassing." I read that as "No,
> > it's
> > > > not
> > > > > > *kind of* embarrassing, it *is* embarrassing."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DanG
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Laurence Horn <
> > > laurence.horn at yale.edu
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:06 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> > > > wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> Barron-Lopez was answering the question “Isn’t it?”  Since the
> > > > > >>> (apparently) correct answer was “It is,” she could have
> answered
> > > > either
> > > > > >>> “Yes, it is” or “No, it is.”
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I don't see "No, it is" as a possibility.  In fact, it seems
> > > totally
> > > > > >>> impossible to me.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> JL
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Agreed; plus I’m not sure where the fail is in answering “Isn’t
> > it?”
> > > > > >> negatively by responding “No, it isn’t”.  What’s more
> complicated
> > is
> > > > if
> > > > > the
> > > > > >> original question doesn’t have a contraction.  As an answer to
> > “Did
> > > > you
> > > > > not
> > > > > >> remember to take out the trash?” I can imagine either “No, I DID
> > > > > remember”
> > > > > >> or “No, I didn’t remember”.   But if the question had been
> “Didn’t
> > > you
> > > > > >> remember to take out the trash?” only the latter is possible
> (or,
> > of
> > > > > course
> > > > > >> “Yes, I remembered”).
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> LH
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Baker, John <
> > JBAKER at stradley.com>
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> Barron-Lopez was answering the question “Isn’t it?”  Since the
> > > > > >>>> (apparently) correct answer was “It is,” she could have
> answered
> > > > > either
> > > > > >>>> “Yes, it is” or “No, it is.”  English seems to fail when the
> > > correct
> > > > > >> answer
> > > > > >>>> to “Isn’t it?” is “It is not.”
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> John Baker
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> ]
> > On
> > > > > >> Behalf
> > > > > >>>> Of Jonathan Lighter
> > > > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 12:31 PM
> > > > > >>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > > > >>>> Subject: Re: No = 'yes; truly'
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> External Email - Think Before You Click
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> John King, CNN: But, politically, it's kind of embarrassing
> for
> > > the
> > > > > >>>> Democrats. Isn't it?
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Laura Barron-Lopez, _Washington Examiner_ (b. ca.1990?): No,
> it
> > > *is*
> > > > > >>>> embarrassing. It's another thing that's added to the long list
> > of
> > > > why
> > > > > >> can't
> > > > > >>>> the Clinton campaign, you know, say what they're doing or be
> > > honest
> > > > > >> about
> > > > > >>>> something.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> JL
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 7:21 AM, Berson at att.net<mailto:Berson@
> > > > att.net>
> > > > > <
> > > > > >>>> Berson at att.net<mailto:Berson at att.net>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> No, no, no, no, no ... yes.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Joel
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> ------ Original message------
> > > > > >>>>> *From: *Jonathan Lighter
> > > > > >>>>> *Date: *Sun, Nov 6, 2016 3:02 PM
> > > > > >>>>> *To: *ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:*ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >;
> > > > > >>>>> *Subject:*Re: [ADS-L] No = 'yes; truly'
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Chuck Todd on _Meet the Press_: "They were huge for Obama,
> > [but]
> > > > > >>>> they'vebeen stagnant this cycle."Tom Brokaw: "No, they have
> > > > > been."Brokaw
> > > > > >>>> went on to elaborate the stagnation.JLJLOn Wed, May 4, 2016 at
> > > 11:56
> > > > > PM,
> > > > > >>>> Wilson Gray wrote:> On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Jonathan
> > > > Lighter
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>> wrote:>> > On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:>
> > >>
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Is
> > > > > >>>> this a variant?> > >> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?
> > > > v=V5GSq4Hea6E
> > > > > <
> > > > > >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5GSq4Hea6E>> >>> So, it's
> > *not*
> > > a
> > > > > >>>> variant. The Magic version is commonplace among the> colored.
> > > Yeah,
> > > > > >> naw.>>>
> > > > > >>>> --> -Wilson> -----> All say, "How hard it is that we have to
> > > > die!"---a
> > > > > >>>> strange complaint to> come from the mouths of people who have
> > had
> > > to
> > > > > >> live.>
> > > > > >>>> -Mark Twain>> ------------------------------
> > > > > >> ------------------------------>
> > > > > >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> <
> > > > > >>>> http://www.americandialect.org>>-- "If the truth is half as
> bad
> > > as
> > > > I
> > > > > >>>> think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."-----------------------
> > > > > >>>> -------------------------------------The American Dialect
> > > Society -
> > > > > >>>> http://www.americandialect.org<http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> --
> > > > > >>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't
> handle
> > > the
> > > > > >> truth."
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> <
> > > > > >>>> http://www.americandialect.org>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> --
> > > > > >>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> > the
> > > > > >> truth."
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > > truth."
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org