[Ads-l] Berkeley and gender neutral words

[Alice Faber]

OK, the actual biased perception of gendered words like "fireman" *may* 
not be demeaning (and I agree that it's likely that the studies that 
Larry and I discuss don't directly address this issue). However, what is 
most definitely demeaning is the assertions in this thread that these 
usages don't both reflect and encourage bias.

On 7/21/19 8:20 PM, Peter Reitan wrote:
> To be clear, I wasn't talking about a particular study that made that
> case or purported to make that case.
> 
> I was responding to a characterization of some study said to be evidence
> that some "gendered" words sometimes used generically in
> non-gender-specific situations are actually perceived as "demeaning,
> offensive, sexist or the like," as suggested by a poster.
> The brief description of the study did not seem to support the
> conclusion the poster attributed to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Laurence Horn" <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> To: ADS-L at listserv.uga.edu
> Sent: 7/21/2019 1:40:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
> 
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> FWIW, this is Miller & Swift=E2=80=99s summary of the study I was trying =
>> to remember:=20
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/y6d6ztqn
>> =20
>> And a related study with similar results:
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/y42dym4b
>>
>>   The experimental protocols in both cases were different from the one =
>> Jon and Peter are discussing, and they don=E2=80=99t relate to what=E2=80=99=
>> s demeaning or offensive, but to which images are evoked by given =
>> =E2=80=9Cneutral=E2=80=9D words, and by hypothesis to who feels included =
>> and who doesn=E2=80=99t.
>>
>> LH
>>
>>
>>>   On Jul 21, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> =
>> wrote:
>>> =20
>>>   I was thinking the same thing. It seems like a non sequitur to jump =
>> from
>>>   the described experiment to the conclusion that that the replacement =
>> of
>>>   such words would be powerfully (or even marginally) beneficial.
>>> =20
>>>   BTW. "sacerdos" not only referred to either sex, its grammatical =
>> gender
>>>   varied accordingly.
>>> =20
>>>   JL
>>> =20
>>>   JL
>>> =20
>>>   On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 12:23 PM Peter Reitan <pjreitan at hotmail.com> =
>> wrote:
>>> =20
>>>>   Correct me if I'm wrong, but evidence of being "more likely" to =
>> select
>>>>   certain kinds of photos in response to different words is not the =
>> same
>>>>   as evidence of being "demeaning, offensive, sexist or the like."  Or =
>> is
>>>>   there more to the study than you conveyed in the brief reference to =
>> it
>>>>   here?
>>>> =20
>>>>   ------ Original Message ------
>>>>   From: "Alice Faber" <afaber at panix.com>
>>>>   To: ADS-L at listserv.uga.edu
>>>>   Sent: 7/20/2019 5:31:28 PM
>>>>   Subject: Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
>>>> =20
>>>>>   ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>   -----------------------
>>>>>   Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>   Poster:       Alice Faber <afaber at PANIX.COM>
>>>>>   Subject:      Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
>>>> =20
>>>>>   =
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> -----
>>>>> =20
>>>>>   On 7/20/19 4:13 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>>>   Is there any pre-craze empirical evidence that women in general =
>> found
>>>>   such
>>>>>>   words demeaning, offensive, sexist, or the like?
>>>>> =20
>>>>>   Actually, there is. I don't remember the citation, but back when I
>>>>>   taught intro linguistics and psycholinguistics, there was a study we
>>>>>   discussed where the experimental task was to find pictures in =
>> magazines
>>>>>   to illustrate specific words. When participants were finding =
>> pictures of
>>>>>   firefighters, mail carriers, flaggers and the like they were more =
>> likely
>>>>>   to select pictures of women than when they were finding pictures of
>>>>>   firemen, mailmen, flagmen, etc. These participants may well have =
>> claimed
>>>>>   not to think of the latter as inherently gendered terms, but they
>>>>>   certainly acted as if they were.
>>>>> =20
>>>>>   AF
>>>>> =20
>>>>>   ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>   The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>>   ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>   The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>>   --=20
>>>   "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
>> truth."
>>> =20
>>>   ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>   The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> 

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