[Ads-l] noggin

Sun Jun 30 19:49:00 UTC 2019

When I was hanging out with fellow neo-trad singers in the '80s (that's
when I heard a couple of the non-Lloyd/Clancy/Dubliners stanzas), nobody
ever indicated that "noggin noggin"  was any kind of expletive-evasion.

I don't know that anyone ever asked or claimed to know what it meant, other
than being in the general realm of positivity. It just seemed to be one of
those weird things that people said in the past.  (Do not cf. "They were
knockin' boots.")

JL

On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 2:24 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

> Just checked a number of renditions (or reproductions of lyrics) by the
> usual suspects—Irish Rovers, Clancy Brothers (+/- Tommy Makem), .  Some of
> the lyrics verge off a bit into creative realms, like the ones below from
> Schooner Fare, a New England group specializing in sea shanteys that
> wanders these parts; both pants (or trousers) and whores put in their
> appearance, along with assorted reptiles and arthropods.  The “all gone for
> beer and tobacco” sometimes becomes “all sold for beer and tobacco”. But as
> you say, the persistent “noggin noggin” expletive-replacement appears to be
> invariant.
> =================
> “All for me grog”, Schooner Fare
>
>         And it's all for me grog, me jolly, jolly grog,
>         It's all for me beer and tobacco.
>         For I spent all me tin
>         With the lassies drinkin' gin,
>         Far across the western ocean I must wander.
>
> Tell me where are me boots, me noggin, noggin boots?
> They've all gone for beer and tobacco.
> For the uppers are wore out,
> And the soles are kicked about,
> And the heels are lookin' out for better weather.
>
> Tell me where is me shirt, me noggin, noggin shirt?
> It's all gone for beer and tobacco.
> For the collar is wore out,
> The sleeves are kicked about,
> And the arse is lookin' out for better weather.
>
> Tell me where is me bed, me noggin, noggin bed?
> It's all gone for beer and tobacco.
> For I lent it to a tart,
> And the mattress fell apart,
> And the springs are lookin' out for better weather.
>
> Now I'm sick in the head and I haven't been to bed
> Since I came ashore with me plunder.
> I've seen centipedes and snakes,
> And I'm full of pains and aches,
> And I think I'll make a path for way out yonder.
>
> > On Jun 30, 2019, at 12:59 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > A. L. Lloyd was one of the founders of the English (soon British & Irish)
> > traditional song revival of the 1950s.  His recording of the song on his
> > Riverside album "English Drinking Songs" was issued in 1956.
> >
> > It has often been "covered" by later performers (most influentially by
> The
> > Clancy Bros. & Tommy Makem).
> >
> > In the place of "noggin," earlier appearances of the song (as collected
> > directly from traditional singers since ca 1890) have the more expected
> > "jolly," "bonny," or "nobby." The last may account for "noggin" by
> > mishearing, but presumably Lloyd, a professional journalist, would not
> have
> > made that error. His own liner notes on the song give no explanation of
> the
> > word, nor any indication of his source beyond an English pub called "The
> > Eel's Foot."  Turns out there was such a pub, in Eastbridge, Suffolk, and
> > Lloyd had produced a show about it and its singers for the BBC in
> 1938-39.
> > "All for My Grog" wasn't sung, however.
> >
> > In any event, "noggin" appears to be restricted to this song, directly
> via
> > A. L. Lloyd. It remains even when later singers add their own modern
> bawdy
> > verses about pants, whores, wives, brass ('money'), etc..
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 11:52 AM Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Nice find! I had looked at the UD, but under “noggin” not “noggin
> noggin”,
> >> lol.
> >>
> >> It appears this is a hapax legomenon. Is it in use in speech other than
> i
> >> reference to “All for Me Grog"? (If not, then Olin Oden must identify it
> >> like I did: context.)
> >>
> >> Benjamin Barrett
> >> Formerly of Seattle, WA
> >>
> >>> On 29 Jun 2019, at 22:28, ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> An entry at Urban Dictionary suggests that "noggin noggin" is a minced
> >> oath.
> >>> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noggin%20noggin
> >>>
> >>> [Begin excerpt]
> >>> noggin noggin
> >>> Used in irish tunes to gracefully omit "Bloody Foogin". In partiucular
> >>> this is to be found used in the tune "All For Me Grog", whose lyrics
> >>> are easily found on the internet.
> >>> Where are me boots, me noggin noggin boots,
> >>> #irsh slang#irish#celtic#bloody#fucking
> >>> by Olin Oden August 25, 2006
> >>> [End excerpt]
> >>>
> >>> The phrase "gone for" probably means that the items were sold for beer
> >>> and tobacco (as you suggest). See the alternative verses below.
> >>> Here are some additional verses containing "noggin' noggin'" from a
> >>> version of the song by The Dubliners.
> >>>
> >>> All For Me Grog
> >>> The Dubliners
> >>> https://genius.com/The-dubliners-all-for-me-grog-lyrics
> >>>
> >>> [Verse 4]
> >>> Where is me wife me noggin' noggin' wife
> >>> She's all sold for beer and tobacco
> >>> You see her front it got worn out
> >>> And her tail been kicked about
> >>> And I'm sure she's looking out for better weather
> >>>
> >>> [Verse 5]
> >>> Oh, where is me bed me noggin' noggin' bed
> >>> It's all sold for beer and tobacco
> >>> You see I sold it to the girls
> >>> And the springs they got all twirls
> >>> And the sheets they're looking out for better weather
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 1:03 AM Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The Blarney Lads have a recording of “All for Me Grog” (
> >> http://pakvim.net/watch/HgpcNpOlxJA <
> http://pakvim.net/watch/HgpcNpOlxJA>),
> >> whose lyrics include what appears to be the adjective “noggin”.
> >>>>
> >>>> ****
> >>>> Where are me boots, me noggin, noggin boots
> >>>> they're all gone for beer and tobacco
> >>>> For the heels they are worn out and the toes are kicked about
> >>>> And the soles are looking for better weather
> >>>>
> >>>> …
> >>>>
> >>>> Where is me shirt me noggin, noggin shirt
> >>>> It's all gone for beer and tobacco
> >>>> For the collar is all worn and the sleeves they are all torn
> >>>> And the tail is looking for better weather
> >>>>
> >>>> ####
> >>>> ####
> >>>>
> >>>> I’m not sure what “gone for” means. Has the singer worn them out due
> to
> >> beer and tobacco or has the singer sold them for beer and tobacco?
> >>>>
> >>>> The OED defines “noggin” as a small drinking vessel. I suppose “noggin
> >> boots” could be “drinking boots”. Just listening to the song, I thought
> >> “noggin" meant either “fucking” or “awesome”.
> >>>>
> >>>> This same song appears in Shakespeare, issue 65, spring 2017, p. 19 (
> >> https://tinyurl.com/y3xl3b7c <https://tinyurl.com/y3xl3b7c>), which
> says
> >> it’s based on the 1956 recording by Al Lloyd.
> >>>>
> >>>> There are a couple of instances on the internet of “noggin” (meaning
> >> “head”) being spelled as “naggin” and a citation that appears to be
> >> unrelated at
> >> https://www.jstor.org/stable/25473871?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents <
> >> https://www.jstor.org/stable/25473871?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents>,
> but
> >> I couldn’t find the meaning for the song above.
> >>>> iety - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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