[Ads-l] fantastic -- SFF sense (UNCLASSIFIED)

[MULLINS, WILLIAM D (Bill) CIV USARMY CCDC AVMC (USA)]

CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED

WRT to the definition of "fantastic," as Garson roots it out below:  my own involvement with genre literature and fandom (which is pretty limited these days) suggests that fantasy and SF are generally accepted more as a continuum currently, than as two separate branches of literature.  So I wouldn’t personally exclude hard SF from "fantastic"; that is to say, even if the Kenealy stories mentioned below are more like H. G. Wells's work (at the "hard" end of the SF spectrum) than, say, like Baum's "Oz" tales (much more obviously "fantasy"), that shouldn't necessarily mean that "fantastic" couldn't apply to them. I'd note that many pulps and magazines with "Fantastic" and "Fantasy" in their titles published hard SF along with straight fantasy. But if the writer of these definitions (presumably Jeff Prucher, who has 1 more Hugo than I do) sees it otherwise, I'd certainly defer.

Kenealy is listed at ISFDB.com, but the collection "Belinda's Beaux" mentioned below is not.
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?122689

I couldn't find "Belinda's Beaux" online, or even a table of contents to identify the stories in question, but a contemporary discussion of the book does not lead me to believe that this particular use of "fantastic" matches the OED SF Project sense of the term:
https://books.google.com/books?id=vUVOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA53&dq="belinda%27s+beaux"


> 
> Thanks Jesse and Bill. Below is a reviewer in 1897 describing a "blend of science and fiction" "two fantastic stories" which are comparable
> to "Mr. Wells's most scientific horrors".
> 
> Jesse's concise definition of fantastic says: "having the quality of fantasy", and the definition for fantasy says: "a genre of fiction which
> contains elements of magic or the supernatural, frequently set in a world other than our own".
> 
> This implies fantastic literature should have "elements of magic or the supernatural".
> 
> Sadly, the "two fantastic stories" referred to below have a "powerful realism" and may not contain anything supernatural. (I am not sure
> because I have not read the stories.)
> 
> Date: March 27, 1897
> Newspaper: The Pall Mall Gazette
> Newspaper Location: London, Greater London, England
> Article: The Bran-Pie of Current Literature: New Novels Start Page 1, Quote Page 2, Column 1
> Database: Newspapers.com
> 
> [Begin excerpt]
> A blend of science and fiction---a rather incongruous mixture---has undoubtedly tickled the public taste of late. A compound of these lines,
> very skilfully mixed and artistically coloured, is to be found in a volume of Miss (or is it Dr.?) Arabella Kenealy's short stories under the title
> of "Belinda's Beaux." They are very unequal in merit.
> Some of the adventures of Lord Sytret are ludicrously far-fetched; while under the heading of "Probabilities" are two fantastic stories of
> such powerful realism and such hideous possibility that they challenge comparison with Mr. Wells's most scientific horrors.
> [End excerpt]
> 
> Garson
> 
> On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 6:45 PM Jesse Sheidlower <jester at panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 04:23:30PM -0400, ADSGarson O'Toole wrote:
> > > Bill Mullins wrote:
> > > > The OED SF project has an entry for "fantastic" (adj) in the SF/F
> > > > sense, earliest cite 1934
> > > >
> > > > _Science Fiction Digest_ Feb 1933 p 18 col 2 "We are considering
> > > > enlarging the field of our service, thereby covering the so-called 'fantastic' magazines."
> > > > http://www.fanac.org/fanzines/SF_Digest_2/SF_Digest_0106-1
> > > > 8.jpeg
> > >
> > > Bill: What is the desired definition of "fantastic" in the SFF domain?
> > > Currently, attempting to access webpages on jessesword.com generates
> > > errors (for me).
> >
> > Sorry about that. I've fixed the server problem.
> >
> > _fantastic_ adj. is at https://www.jessesword.com/sf/view/1055
> >
CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED

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