[Ads-l] to "dutch"

Dan Goncharoff thegonch at GMAIL.COM
Sun Dec 27 15:57:39 EST 2020


I am not sure this is true. Even today, German servers normally record a
separate bill for each person, even marking beers or pitchers on an
individual's Deckel. It is not a big stretch to say that German beer halls
in the US in the 19th century used the same practice, which was called
"going Dutch".

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 3:44 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:

> But “Dutch treat" figures as part of a much larger set of slurs and
> epithets denigrating the Dutch that stem from the years in which the
> Britain and Holland were engaged in the “herring wars” for supremacy of the
> North Sea, as itemized in Farmer & Henley, including inter alia:
>
> Dutch act:  suicide
> Dutch bargain:  a bargain all on one side
> Dutch-clock:  a bedpan; a wife
> Dutch concert/medley:  a raucous hubbub
> Dutch consolation:  Job’s comfort (= “could be worse”)
> Dutch courage:  pot-valiancy, courage due to intoxication
> Dutch fuck:  the practice of lighting one cigarette from another
> Dutch milk:  beer
> Dutch treat:  an outing at which one pays one’s own way
> Dutch widow:  a prostitute
> Dutch wife:  a bolster (on a bed)
>
> —very much along the lines of:
>
> Irish apricot (apple, lemon):  a potato
> Irishman’s dinner:  a fast
> Irish evidence:  false witness
> Irish kiss:  a slap in the face
> Irish promotion:  a pay-cut
> Irish twins:  two siblings who are not twins but are born less than a year
> apart
> Irish wedding:  the emptying of a cesspool
>
> LH
>
> > On Dec 27, 2020, at 2:43 PM, Peter Reitan <pjreitan at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > I assumed that impression could have come from "German" or "Dutch"
> comedians who spoke in "dialect".
> >
> > Weber and Fields were active during that period.  Several examples of
> their humor are available on youtube.
> >
> > https://youtu.be/l75t6Fmydqk
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 10:52:55 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: to "dutch"
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: to "dutch"
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > It sounds like adhockery to me, since I'm unaware of any tradition that
> > Germans "make themselves say what they don't mean." The Irish were
> > associated with absurd blunders ("bulls"), making the nonexistent "Irish
> > book" a more likely expression of that idea.
> >
> > Germans were notorious instead for their accents, lager, and sausages.
> > Vaudeville stereotyping was common, but no more so than for other ethnic
> > groups.
> >
> > Interesting find, though.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 11:34 AM Peter Reitan <pjreitan at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> An early explanation of the word suggests it was "derived from the habit
> >> some ignorant Germans have of making themselves say what they don't
> mean,
> >> and the flippant sports apply the term to a book that 'wins backward,'
> or
> >> stands to lose no matter which horse wons the race."
> >> https://www.newspapers.com/clip/66134635/the-los-angeles-times/
> >>
> >> LA Times, October 25, 1903, page 23.
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> >> Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 7:33:28 AM
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Subject: to "dutch"
> >>
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      to "dutch"
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> "To lay bets in such a way as to win by covering all possibilities
> >> proportionately; also fig."
> >>
> >> Not in OED.
> >>
> >> 1902 _St. Paul Globe_ (Dec. 21) 33: When the book was "Dutched," it
> meant
> >> that the player turned the tables on the bookie, and played every horse
> in
> >> the race, certain of winning on practically all. ...In the days when the
> >> men in the ring had the large slates, standing up in full view, on which
> >> the prices were clearly written in large figures, it was an easy matter
> to
> >> "Dutch" the books. [How-to details follow.]
> >>
> >> 1910 _Washington Times_ (Sept. 4) 12: The Cubs will be stronger
> favorites
> >> in Chicago than in Philadelphia. Fine chance to "Dutch the book."
> >>
> >> 1914 _Evening Bulletin _ (Providence, R.I.) (Sept. 11) Sec. III 9: At
> the
> >> beginning of the season these sporting men backed the champions at
> prices
> >> of 1 to 2 and 1 to 3. They are now endeavoring to lay off as a matter of
> >> protection, to Dutch the book, in other words.
> >>
> >> 1916 _Denver Rocky Mountain News_ (Dec. 3) (Want Ads Section) 3: FOR
> SALE -
> >> ACRES AND RANCHES... A Chance to Dutch the Book...for $300 under value,
> >> raise vegetables and chickens; you can't lose.
> >>
> >> 1924 _San Francisco Chronicle_ (Oct. 2) (Sports) 2: One could easily
> "dutch
> >> the book" by betting on Washington in New York and the Giants in San
> >> Francisco. On such a basis, one would wager $1000 in New York to win
> $1200
> >> and $1000 in San Francisco to win $1250.
> >>
> >> 1932 _San Francisco Chronicle_ (June 14) (Sports) 15: In the East you
> might
> >> bet $800 on Schmeling against $1000. In San Francisco you would then
> wager
> >> $800 on Sharkey. What would happen? You would stand to win $200 no
> matter
> >> who might win. Of course, in the case of a draw, you would be upsticks
> and
> >> nobody hurt. But it is not always easy to make sure of "Dutching the
> book."
> >>
> >> 1986 _Jersey Journal_ (Jersey City) (Apr. 14) 24: So get ready to dutch
> the
> >> book.
> >>
> >>
> >> The origin? Evidently < "Dutch book" (not in OED), 'a bookmaker's
> inexpert
> >> odds that allow a bettor to profit by wagering proportionately on all
> >> possibilities; also fig.'
> >>
> >>
> >> 1894 _Evansville [Ind.] Courier and Press_ (June 15) 7: Parties ...who
> seem
> >> content to be called bookmakers even if they do offer to the public
> what is
> >> commonly known in the ring as a Dutch book....[T]heir patrons get the
> best
> >> of it, as long as it lasts.
> >>
> >> 1895 _San Francisco Chronicle_ (Jan. 9)  10: Then Joe went after Motor
> >> money. What kind of a Dutch book did Joe have with Motor at 13 to 5,
> >> Realization at 8 to 5, and Elise at 6 to 1?
> >>
> >> 1911 _Evening World_ (N.Y.C.) (Mar. 2) (Daily Mag.):  Concentrate! The
> >> fellow who plays for General Results is making a Dutch book on himself!
> >>
> >> 1930 _Times-Union_ (Albany, N.Y.) (JUne 8) B-5:  Obviously Shaw could
> not
> >> lay these prices under any other system for the reason that he would
> likely
> >> be making a "dutch" book.
> >>
> >>
> >> Why "Dutch" (presumably "German")?  The quest goes on.
> >>
> >> JL
> >>
> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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