[Ads-l] Snasu (variant), was Re: Antedating of "Snafu" by Barry Popik

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Tue Nov 24 23:48:53 UTC 2020 

Ripley's Believe It or Not!! spoke ca1959 of
Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg in darkest
Massachusetts.

It supposedly translates as "You fish on your side, I fish on my side, no
one fishes in the middle."

Coincidence?

JL

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 6:33 PM George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu>
wrote:

> JL's message of 5:20 included a link to a list of strange scientific
> species names, including:
> *Myzocallis kahawaluokalani* Kirkaldy, 1907 (an aphid; in Hawaiian, the
> name supposedly means "you fish on your side of the lagoon and I'll fish on
> the other, and no one will fish in the middle")
>
> I have seen that derivation offered for the name of Lake Memphremagog in
> northern Vermont.  Wikipedia explains the name thus:
> Memphremagog was also pronounced as "Mamphremagog". This came from the
> Abenakis' <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abenaki_people> *Mamlawbagak*
> which
> signifies "a long and large sheet of water". The prefix *mamlaw* denotes
> largeness or abundance; the particule *baga* denotes water; and "k" marks
> the name as given in local term.
>
> I have no idea where I saw this.
>
> GAT
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:20 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps of interest, from 2006. Check the archives for some context:
> >
> >
> > > "CYA" and "FTA" are not only genuine, they're very well documented.
> > Also familiar to HDAS are BOHICA, BUFF, (FT) EUSTIS, DILLIGAF, FIDO,
> FIGMO,
> > FNG, FUBAR, HMFIC, I&I, MRE, OMGIF, PFC, SNAFU, SWAG, TARFU, USMC ("Uncle
> > Sam's Misguided Children"). Some of these go back to WWII.
> >
> > >Still others that come to mind are DILLIGAS ("...a shit"), WTF?, USMC
> > ("Uncle Sam's Moldy Crotch"), FUJIGMO ("Fuck you, Jack, I Got My
> Orders"),
> > FUBIS ("...Buddy, I'm Shipping"), TARFUBAR, SUSFU ("Situation Unchanged,
> > Still...").
> >
> > >There's a chigger whose scientific monicker is _Tribicula fujigmo_.  For
> > details, as well as other bizarre Linnaean names (including the fly
> > _Phthiria relativitae_), see [
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.faculty.ucr.edu_-7Eheraty_menke.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=OdadWhMvHQPYUJNwmzLJiMyK0fUAxFjkgRQa0m96Elc&s=STMhEdXZdEWWmsDUhg8GMAjw5b1uX3K9lm8tRfumRm4&e=
> > ].<
> >
> > I omitted "DILLIGAF."
> >
> > American Notes & Queries also has a "SNAFU" from 1941.
> >
> >
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 4:57 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Stephen. I agree that the "snasu" variant is interesting. Many
> > > thanks, Ben, for locating my message about "snasu" from the
> > > antediluvian age.
> > >
> > > I just located an interesting instance of "S N A F U" in March 1940.
> > > Unfortunately, this "S N A F U" might be illusory. See the following
> > > description.
> > >
> > > Date: March 12, 1940
> > > Newspaper: Detroit Evening Times
> > > Newspaper Location: Detroit, Michigan
> > > Section: Detroit Times Daily Magazine Page
> > > Article: Wishing Well (puzzle)
> > > Quote Page 12, Column 5
> > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > Database: British Newspaper Archive
> > > Database: GenealogyBank
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > WISHING WELL
> > >
> > > 4 3 6 5 8 2 4 6 7 3 5 8 4
> > > B A S N A F U U R C E C Y
> > >
> > > 2 6 7 3 8 4 6 5 8 7 2 4 6
> > > L C E O T T C W O U A H E
> > >
> > > 4 3 6 5 7 8 4 2 6 8 3 5 6
> > > E M S I N N U T S I P N I
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Above are the top six rows from a puzzle with 14 rows. The puzzle
> > > contains the following contiguous sequence of five letters "S N A F
> > > U". The puzzle also contains the following sequence "N U T S".
> > >
> > > It is possible that a mischievous puzzle constructor deliberately
> > > inserted "S N A F U" and "N U T S". However, the solution to the
> > > puzzle is unrelated to these sequences, so I guess we have to assume
> > > that these sequences were simply coincidental.
> > >
> > > I also came across another variant acronym "Susfu" with a June 1942
> > > citation. The meaning is not explained in this citation, but I found
> > > another instance that decoded the first two letters as "Situation
> > > unchanged"; hence, "Situation unchanged still fouled up".
> > >
> > > Date: June 25, 1942
> > > Newspaper: The Jersey Journal
> > > Newspaper Location: Jersey City, New Jersey
> > > Article: Signal Corps Work Vital in Modern War
> > > Author: Martin Gately (Staff Reporter)
> > > Quote Page 2, Column 5
> > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > Database: GenealogyBank
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > The newsmen, accompanied by officers, were taken through the Signal
> > > Corps Technical Schools, where, among other things, they were
> > > initiated into the meaning of such phrases as "Snafu" and "Susfu."
> > > Among the schools visited was the code building where the men who
> > > tapped out the last messages from Bataan were taught.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Garson
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 12:46 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Back in 2009, Garson O'Toole found the "snasu" variant in Time
> > magazine,
> > > > Aug. 18, 1941.
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listserv.linguistlist.org_pipermail_ads-2Dl_2009-2DDecember_094658.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=OdadWhMvHQPYUJNwmzLJiMyK0fUAxFjkgRQa0m96Elc&s=YpTLhKfZXByzYScf_kreanYNCN1Qpt7SrRlcKwlsY9E&e=
> > > > Citation: 1941 Aug. 18, National Defense: Problem of Morale, Time
> > > magazine.
> > > > Another outfit used another word as response to almost any question:
> > > Snasu
> > > > ("Situation normal: all screwed up"). For the low state of Army
> morale
> > > was
> > > > merely brought into the open by the draft-extension bill.
> > > >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.time.com_time_magazine_article_0-2C9171-2C802126-2C00.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=OdadWhMvHQPYUJNwmzLJiMyK0fUAxFjkgRQa0m96Elc&s=CF_5pYqw85klgUwi83ERWeP3uMlSzyE5dswjK9Q9Las&e=
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > As for the 1941 Google Books hit for "snafu," I assume that's the
> > > > appearance in the Sept. '41 issue of American Notes and Queries, as
> > given
> > > > in OED2.
> > > >
> > > > --bgz
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 5:34 AM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Oct. 26 , 1941, Charlotte Observer [NC; AmHistN; "...Army
> Lingo..."]
> > > 48/4
> > > > > Snasu: an expression of disgust when things go wrong. Literally
> > > "Situation
> > > > > normal, all screwed up."
> > > > >
> > > > > [GB gives snafu also as 1941, but not confirmed.]
> > > > >
> > > > > Stephen Goranson
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf
> of
> > > > > Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 11:07 AM
> > > > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > > Subject: Antedating of "Snafu" by Barry Popik
> > > > >
> > > > > I cannot overstate the riches that are contained in Barry Popik's
> > > > > wonderful website barrypopik.com.  Here is an antedating he has
> for
> > > > > "snafu."  This is a slight antedating in terms of chronology, but I
> > > think
> > > > > it is worth highlighting because "snafu" is such an important term.
> > > > >
> > > > > snafu (OED 1941 [Sept.])
> > > > >
> > > > > 5 June 1941, Daily Times (Chicago, IL), pg. 10, col. 2:
> > > > > Army’s all snafu
> > > > > Snakes, bugs halt ‘battle march
> > > > > By KEITH WHEELER
> > > > > (TIMES Staff Correspondent)
> > > > > Bell Buckle, Tenn., June 5.—“Everything, said 1st. Lieut. Robert G.
> > > > > Anderson, executive officer of company G. 2d battalion, (New York)
> > > > > infantry, 27th division “is turning out snafu.”
> > > > > (...)
> > > > > What,” The Times asked, “does snafu means?”
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred Shapiro
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > The American Dialect Society -
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.americandialect.org__;!!OToaGQ!-feEW1lf938FnmHL-YGr2C-YgVUo-6Ka9zOlOKET8UlGkInnBpD7aDqL9AQlTDWO$
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> > > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society -
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=OdadWhMvHQPYUJNwmzLJiMyK0fUAxFjkgRQa0m96Elc&s=X7fZvRqo_j_bYJClarZ3TZ8dlE2vPlM0hSF1DD0sE5U&e=
> >
>
>
> --
> George A. Thompson
> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> Univ. Pr., 1998.
>
> But when aroused at the Trump of Doom / Ye shall start, bold kings, from
> your lowly tomb. . .
> L. H. Sigourney, "Burial of Mazeen", Poems.  Boston, 1827, p. 112
>
> The Trump of Doom -- also known as The Dunghill Toadstool.  (Here's a
> picture of his great-grandfather.)
>
> http://www.parliament.uk/worksofart/artwork/james-gillray/an-excrescence---a-fungus-alias-a-toadstool-upon-a-dunghill/3851
>
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>


-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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