[Ads-l] Antedating of "Infrared"

Tue Sep 8 19:38:02 UTC 2020

Oops I forgot: This is from "Dictionnaire des familles françaises anciennes
ou notables à la fin du XIXe siècle: Duh-Eys"

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 11:37 AM Chris Waigl <chris at lascribe.net> wrote:

> I think I did a first reply to George Thompson only, saying that
> apparently the nobility rank wasn't THAT high then. The Napoleonic general
> was listed as a "Chevalier de l'Empire".
>
> This gave me the idea though to try Google Books again. And I think I've
> found our lieutenant-colonel E. de St.-Florent: In    I can only see
> snippets, but one says ... "Le général Dupuy de Saint-Florent avait adopté
> Antione-Télésphore Vignaud, décédé en 1874. L'un des trois fils de
> celui-ci, Pierre-Edouard Vignaud-Dupuy de Saint-Florent, né en 1830, a été
> nommé en 1890 lieutenant-colonel du génie ..." . In English: "General Dupuy
> de Saint-Florent had adopted A-T V, who died in 1874. One of the three sons
> of the latter, Pierre-Edmond V-D de S-F, born in 1830, was appointed
> lieutenant-colonel in the army corps of engineers in 1890. ...."  It is
> quite conceivable for a Pierre-Edmond to go by Edouard and fits with a
> Lieut.-Col. E. de St.-Florent showing up in 1897 in the index of amateur
> photography texts.
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 7:45 AM George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> I believe that the Almanach de Gotha did for European noble families what
>> DeBrett's Peerage did for England.
>>
>> The NYPL record indicates that the last edition was issued in 1944;
>>
>> Almanach de Gotha : annuaire généalogique, diplomatique et statistique.
>> <
>> http://catalog.nypl.org/search~S1?/cAPC+%28Almanach+de+Gotha%29/capc+almanach+de+gotha/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CE/frameset&FF=capc+almanach+de+gotha&7%2C%2C327
>> >
>>
>> Gotha : J. Perthes.  1944
>>
>>
>> The NYPL also shows that the publication was revived in England a couple
>> of
>> decades ago.  (Note the editorial comment, though.)
>>
>> Almanach de Gotha : genealogy.
>> <
>> http://catalog.nypl.org/search~S1?/cAPC+%28Almanach+de+Gotha%29/capc+almanach+de+gotha/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CE/frameset&FF=capc+almanach+de+gotha&2%2C%2C327
>> >
>>    Standard ed.
>> London : Almanach de Gotha,
>>
>> 1998
>>
>> v. 1, pts. 1 & 2 (Sovereign houses of Europe and South America); and: v. 2
>> (Non-sovereign princely and ducal houses of Europe).
>>
>>  This is a controversial renewal of the original publication by a
>> commercial enterprise "touting themselves as the true successors to the
>> reputable almanach" (Wikipedia, accessed Jan. 22, 2008).
>>
>>
>> Anyway, if anyone has access to this, or if an earlier edition has been
>> digitized, and if Vignaud Dupuy de Saint-Florent was a sprig of nobility,
>> by adoption or otherwise, then he might be found there.
>>
>>
>> The family does not seem to be in the Annuaire de la noblesse de France.
>> v.57 1901, (HathiTrust) but this is evidently limited to the highest of
>> the
>> high, and mere generals who have been nobilized for distinguished service
>> must use the back door.
>>
>>
>> GAT
>>
>> (a recovering reference librarian)
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 7:25 PM Chris Waigl <chris at lascribe.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Fred,
>> >
>> > This is great - the electromagnetic spectrum is something I teach, and
>> > having some historical texture to the topic helps.
>> >
>> > I poked at the titles you cited in Google Books a little more and found
>> > quite a few mentions of M. de Saint-Florent in the tables of
>> > contents, mostly for a color photography process he apparently
>> invented. He
>> > shows up as "E. de Saint-Florent" and "Lieut.-Col. de Saint-Florent". I
>> > then looked in the catalogue of the French national library, but the
>> only
>> > name that is from approximately the right time is Alfred Vignaud Dupuy
>> de
>> > Saint-Florent, a medical doctor born in 1868 who wrote a treatise about
>> I
>> > think Huntington's disease or a similar neurological affliction ("La
>> chorée
>> > congénitale"). "Alfred" would be the (first) given name, and "Vignaud
>> Dupuy
>> > de Saint-Florent" the family name. Big-ass nobility. The family seems to
>> > still exist. There's, going backwards, a Napoleonian general
>> > called François Dupuy de Saint-Florent 1772-1838 who, according to this
>> bio
>> >
>> >
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nieuletalentoursenlimousin.fr_archive_militaires-2Dfrancois-2Ddupuy-2Dde-2Dst-2Dflorent_&d=DwIFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=Kt3vaUhGH8UuqZmP8zxTHJVomOMN12sxDnGlvLh3FXU&s=vvJp38TKhbwhEKSX67M6dFsGqyikBXBl-waihesZOLY&e=
>> > adopted a nephew called Antoine Télesphore Vignaud, and I guess it's his
>> > descendents who go by the mouthful Vignaud Dupuy de Saint-Florent.
>> >
>> > Anyhoo, none of this tells us who E. was. This page
>> >
>> >
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mesarchitecture.org_infrared.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=Kt3vaUhGH8UuqZmP8zxTHJVomOMN12sxDnGlvLh3FXU&s=K_zKOvguWYY5BWAKvCRsRa9msiy7Bmmzm0qeGSF0u6s&e=
>> > follows your footsteps,
>> > probably, but must have some extra sources: "The phrase infra-rouge was
>> > translated into English as “infrared” in 1874, in a translation of an
>> > article by Vignaud Dupuy de Saint-Florent (1830-1907), an engineer
>> within
>> > the French army, who attained the rank of lieutenant colonel and who
>> > pursued pictures as a pastime."
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 7:13 AM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > The OED's first use of the term "infrared" is dated 1881.  The letter
>> > > below, which I am not sure where I got it from, traces it back to
>> 1874.
>> > >
>> > > Fred Shapiro
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > In “Herschel and the Puzzle of Infrared” (May–June 2012), Jack White
>> > > mentions that it is not known who coined the term “infrared.” This
>> > mystery
>> > > caught my attention. A Google Books search for “infra-red” finds two
>> > > articles published in April 1874, both of which use the term in the
>> > context
>> > > of Edmond Becquerel’s treatise on light. In that work, La Lumière
>> (1867,
>> > > vol. 1, p. 141), the French infra-rouge is used. One of the articles
>> > > appeared in The Photographic News for Amateur Photographers (18:176),
>> and
>> > > is by M. de St. Florent; the other is uncredited but appeared in The
>> > > British Journal of Photography (21:160) and is attributed to de St.
>> > Florent
>> > > elsewhere in the volume. I have not been able to trace de St.
>> Florent’s
>> > > full name, but he published contemporaneously in Bulletin de la
>> Société
>> > > française de photographie. This author appears to be the coiner of
>> > > “infra-red,” having translated it from French.
>> > >
>> > > There are two curious sidelights to this story: Becquerel was the
>> father
>> > > of Henri Becquerel, for whom the unit of radioactivity was named; and
>> the
>> > > term “ultraviolet” was coined by William Herschel’s son John Herschel
>> in
>> > > 1840.
>> > >
>> > > Gary Rosenberg
>> > >
>> > > Academy of Natural Sciences
>> > >
>> > > Drexel University
>> > >
>> > > Philadelphia, PA
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > The American Dialect Society -
>> >
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=Kt3vaUhGH8UuqZmP8zxTHJVomOMN12sxDnGlvLh3FXU&s=g1zuutvOfr60H7ZcsIoRVAxXLwHfcGJ1CiQAP48slLI&e=
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Chris Waigl . chris.waigl at gmail.com . chris at lascribe.net
>> >
>> >
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__eggcorns.lascribe.net&d=DwIFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=Kt3vaUhGH8UuqZmP8zxTHJVomOMN12sxDnGlvLh3FXU&s=Kh4uhkNMeatO92UHezzxjcuw9Q1K4XJpyOvT5soVD1o&e=
>> > .
>> >
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__chryss.eu&d=DwIFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=Kt3vaUhGH8UuqZmP8zxTHJVomOMN12sxDnGlvLh3FXU&s=3Jt9Bs197yxphutz1NsS7FK0eQSdIAxMcfHRdiFxR-A&e=
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society -
>> >
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=Kt3vaUhGH8UuqZmP8zxTHJVomOMN12sxDnGlvLh3FXU&s=g1zuutvOfr60H7ZcsIoRVAxXLwHfcGJ1CiQAP48slLI&e=
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> George A. Thompson
>> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
>> Univ. Pr., 1998.
>>
>> But when aroused at the Trump of Doom / Ye shall start, bold kings, from
>> your lowly tomb. . .
>> L. H. Sigourney, "Burial of Mazeen", Poems.  Boston, 1827, p. 112
>>
>> The Trump of Doom -- also known as The Dunghill Toadstool.  (Here's a
>> picture of his great-grandfather.)
>>
>> http://www.parliament.uk/worksofart/artwork/james-gillray/an-excrescence---a-fungus-alias-a-toadstool-upon-a-dunghill/3851
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Chris Waigl . chris.waigl at gmail.com . chris at lascribe.net
> http://eggcorns.lascribe.net . http://chryss.eu
>

-- 
Chris Waigl . chris.waigl at gmail.com . chris at lascribe.net
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net . http://chryss.eu

------------------------------------------------------------
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