[Ads-l] St Louis rolling stop; St Louis stop

Wilson Gray hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Sun Dec 19 02:44:13 EST 2021


Really interesting, Garson! Thank you for taking the trouble.

On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 1:41 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On a separate thread Ben Zimmer mentioned a 1964 citation for
> "California stop" (i.e., a rolling stop) presented in his "Boston
> Globe" article. Others on the thread commented, and Wilson Gray
> mentioned "St. Louis rolling stop". So I performed a few searches at
> newspapers.com.
>
> The 1947 citation used the possessive form of St Louis in the phrase
> "St. Louis' Rolling Stops". By 1959 "St. Louis rolling stop" and "St.
> Louis stop" were in use.
>
> 1947 Feb 21:   St. Louis' Rolling Stops Taboo On West Coast;
> 1954 Mar 05:   city of the rolling stop, St Louis
> 1954 Mar 15:   brings his car to a rolling, "St. Louis style" stop
> 1954 May 09:   St. Louis's famous rolling stops
> 1956 Apr 19:   St. Louis "the home of the rolling stop."
> 1959 Jan 10:   celebrated St. Louis rolling stop
> 1959 Jul 02:   so-called St. Louis Stop or rolling stop
> 1959 Aug 10:   make the St. Louis "rolling stop"
>
> Date: February 21, 1947
> Newspaper: St. Louis Star-Times
> Newspaper Location: St. Louis, Missouri
> Note
> Quote Page 20, Column 4
> Database: Newspapers.com
> [Begin excerpt]
> St. Louis' Rolling Stops Taboo On West Coast;
> Reader Offers Some Traffic Control Suggestions
> [End excerpt]
>
> Date: March 5, 1954
> Newspaper: The Holland Evening Sentinel
> Newspaper Location: Holland, Michigan
> Article: Press Comment (acknowledges Indianapolis News)
> Quote Page 4, Column 2
> Database: Newspapers.com
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> This is more reasonable than requiring drivers to stop at an empty
> intersection and it gives authority to the regular STOP sign. On that
> basis alone it might be worthwhile in the city of the rolling stop, St
> Louis.
> --Indianapolis News
> [End excerpt]
>
> Date: March 15, 1954
> Newspaper: The Sioux City Journal
> Newspaper Location: Sioux City, Iowa
> Article: Secret Police in Perry
> Quote Page 4, Column 2
> Database: Newspapers.com
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> So the citizen who brings his car to a rolling, "St. Louis style" stop
> at a stop sign, and gets away with it, figures he has put down a
> four-spot to the traffic cop's trey.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Date: May 9, 1954
> Newspaper: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
> Newspaper Location: St. Louis, Missouri
> Article: 7332 of the Things
> Quote Page 2C, Column 3
> Database: Newspapers.com
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> The police, who have to try to stop St. Louis's famous rolling stops
> at our also-famous multitude of stop signs, know better than anyone
> else how ridiculous some of the signs are.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Date: April 19, 1956
> Newspaper: The Montgomery Advertiser
> Newspaper Location: Montgomery, Alabama
> Article: 'Stop' Vs. 'Yield'
> Quote Page 4A, Column 1
> Database: Newspapers.com
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> This state of affairs, the Post-Dispatch says, has made St. Louis "the
> home of the rolling stop."
> [End excerpt]
>
> Date: January 10, 1959
> Newspaper: St. Louis Globe-Democrat
> Newspaper Location: St. Louis, Missouri
> Article: Brightening View on Natural Bridge
> Quote Page 6, Column 2
> Database: Newspapers.com
> [Begin excerpt]
> Even those few coming from Clark street into Twelfth could make the
> entry far more easily while traffic is stopped by the traffic lights
> on either side of Clark than under the present circumstances of trying
> to pick their way through the celebrated St. Louis rolling stop.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Date: July 02, 1959
> Newspaper: The News-Times
> Newspaper Location: Webster Groves, Missouri
> Article: Webster Stop Sign Evasion Apparent In Traffic Commissoner's Survey
> Quote Page 1, Column 4
> Database: Newspapers.com
> [Begin excerpt]
> The so-called St. Louis Stop or rolling stop has become such an
> established method of driving that out-of-town motorists run the risk
> of being bashed in the rear if they obey the law to the letter.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Date: August 10, 1959
> Newspaper: St. Louis Globe-Democrat
> Newspaper Location: St. Louis, Missouri
> Article: Resurvey School Crossings!
> Quote Page 10, Column 1
> Database: Newspapers.com
> [Begin excerpt]
> The minimum number of Stop signs often is the best. Where there are an
> excessive number, motorists ignore them or make the St. Louis "rolling
> stop," frequently more dangerous than none at all!
> [End excerpt]
>
> Bonus: Here is an instance in 1983 of "California roll" mentioned by
> Ben Brainard.
>
> Date: December 16, 1983
> Newspaper: The News Tribune
> Newspaper Location: Fort Pierce, Florida
> Article: Stop!
> Author: Jennifer Milelli (News Tribune Writer)
> Quote Page B8, Column 1
> Database: Newspapers.com
> [Begin excerpt]
> "In many cases people think they have a clear view of the intersection
> and do a 'California roll'" said Port St. Lucie Police Lt Charles
> Johnson. "They're in too big a hurry.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 5:56 AM Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > There was an article on the "rolling stop" in the St. Louis
> Post-Dispatch.
> > Can't recall the year, but it was most likely between 1945-1955. The
> > reference was to the "St. Louis rolling stop."
> >
> > Back in the '70's, the featured article in the Travel section of the
> Boston
> > Globe was about Los Angeles. The writer wrote that a Bostonian would be
> > astonished by the degree to which Angelenos adhered to local traffic
> laws.
> > In the more than 17 years that I lived there, I found that to be the
> case.
> > Because I was a crazy driver, I reached the max of four moving
> violations,
> > after which your license would be suspended, on many an occasion.
> > Amazingly, I don't have any experience-of-racism stories to tell about
> the
> > LAPD, even though I was driving to work and backevery day, even during
> the
> > Watts Riot.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 5:36 PM Andy Bach <afbach at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Idaho stop" - Idaho has had that legal for bicyclists since '82
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 8:10 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > See my 2013 Boston Globe column linked below. An excerpt:
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Consider the “rolling stop,” in which the driver treats a stop sign
> as a
> > > > yield. The region most identified with this casual technique is
> > > California,
> > > > and, like many such traffic insults, it’s especially favored by
> those in
> > > > the immediate vicinity, in this case neighboring states such as
> Arizona
> > > and
> > > > Oregon. I found a reference to the “California stop” all the way
> back in
> > > > 1964, when an Arizona state commissioner named John P. Clark was
> arrested
> > > > in Tucson on charges of driving drunk and failing to heed a stop
> sign.
> > > > Clark admitted to newspaper reporters that he had made a “California
> > > > rolling stop” but denied being intoxicated. In the late ’70s and
> ’80s,
> > > > “California roll” developed as an alternate term, no doubt helped
> along
> > > by
> > > > the popularity of the sushi roll.
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 7:44 PM Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I think you're getting confused with the inside-out sushi roll.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 4:28 PM Benjamin M Brainard <brainard at uga.edu
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I always thought that was called a "California Roll" vs stop
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ..ben
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Benjamin Brainard VMD, Dipl ACVAA, ACVECC
> > > > > > Edward H Gunst Professor of Small Animal Critical Care
> > > > > > Director of Clinical Research
> > > > > > College of Veterinary Medicine
> > > > > > University of Georgia
> > > > > > 706-542-9383 (v)
> > > > > > 706-357-0109 (f)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 12/9/21, 4:17 PM, "American Dialect Society on behalf of
> Grant
> > > > > > Barrett" <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU on behalf of
> > > > gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     I've seen it as "Cali sober" on Reddit and there are many
> hits
> > > for
> > > > it
> > > > > >     there. The oldest mentions for both forms of the expression
> are
> > > > from
> > > > > >     about two years ago.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=%22cali%20sober%22
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     GB
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 5:51 PM Ben Zimmer <
> bgzimmer at gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >     >
> > > > > >     > Looks like "California sober" is to "sober" as "California
> > > stop"
> > > > > > (i.e., a
> > > > > >     > rolling stop) is to "stop." (Larry Horn would call these
> > > > > "ironyms.")
> > > > > >     >
> > > > > >     > I discuss "California stop" (aka "Hollywood/Michigan/New
> > > > > > York/Philly/St.
> > > > > >     > Louis/American stop") in these 2013 pieces on regional
> traffic
> > > > > terms:
> > > > > >     >
> > > > > >     >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2013/04/06/boston-driving-bad-needs-its-own-lingo/UM7UhGh5qCdZPVukFH37QN/story.html
> > > > > >     >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/wordroutes/word-on-the-street-sketchy-traffic-lingo/
> > > > > >     >
> > > > > >     > --bgz
> > > > > >     >
> > > > > >     > On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 5:57 PM Bill Mullins <
> > > > amcombill at hotmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >     >
> > > > > >     > > "California sober" -- never ran across this before today.
> > > > > >     > >
> > > > > >     > >
> > > > > >     > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://www.lx.com/entertainment/what-does-california-sober-mean-definition/45920/
> > > > > >     > >
> > > > > >     > >
> > > > > >     >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > a
> > >
> > > Andy Bach,
> > > afbach at gmail.com
> > > 608 658-1890 cell
> > > 608 261-5738 wk
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Wilson
> > -----
> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > -Mark Twain
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


-- 
- Wilson
-----
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-Mark Twain

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


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