[Ads-l] bawdy = 'rowdily humorous; slapstick'

Sat Jan 23 00:03:27 UTC 2021

Yeah, and they also said the song was written for an "orgy club."

As a point of no interest, when I was in college in the early '70s, a
friend of mine mentioned that he had "heard" that Key's poem was based on a
drinking song that was "pretty bawdy."

So the story that the national anthem's origin was in something unsavory or
worse goes back for at least half a century.

(Note to students: in those days, anything stronger than the relatively
discreet Playboy was considered unsavory or worse. And even Playboy was
suspect in some circles....)

JL

JL

JL

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:01 PM Andy Bach <afbach at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, it’s gone to pornographic on Qura:
> [review of Lady Gag’s rendition] “She even made me forget that the tune is
> taken from a pornographic 18th C English drinking song.”
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 5:19 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Oooh!  "Entwine"!  Just reading the word gives me a thrill.
> >
> > Not.
> >
> > Maybe the term people are groping for (sorry for the indecency) is
> > "suggestive."
> >
> > So perhaps 'suggestive' is another new meaning of "bawdy."  (Like
> > 'surprised' is the latest meaning of "shocked.")
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 4:37 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > According to the L.A. Times, the key word is “entwine”, from the line
> > >
> > > ‘I’ll instruct you, like me to entwine; The myrtle of Venus with
> > Bacchus’s
> > > vine’
> > >
> > > Since as the newspaper helpfully points out,
> > >
> > > '“entwine” is defined in any dictionary’.
> > >
> > > —although they acknowledge the sexual allusion is “understated”.
> > >
> > > So I guess we’re quibbling with that periodical over the threshold of
> > what
> > > counts as “sex”, and therefore as “bawdy”. (I can’t count the number of
> > pix
> > > I’ve received in which two kittens qualify as lying entwined in what
> I’ve
> > > always taken to be a platonic way.) Maybe it should be the L.A. Times
> > > rather than its N.Y. cousin that qualifies as the Gray Lady.
> > >
> > > LH
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Jan 21, 2021, at 2:49 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Reading the lyrics reveals nothing bawdy to me (i.e., 'humorously
> > > indecent;
> > > > obscene; lewd'). Nor is the L.A. Times a reliable guide to 18th
> century
> > > > poesy.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone capable of writing the lyrics - written for a convivial
> singers'
> > > > club ("Sons of Harmony") - would know that the myrtle was sacred to
> > > Venus,
> > > > goddess of love, and that Bacchus was the god of wine (in poetic
> > > language,
> > > > often "the vine").
> > > >
> > > > The singers want the spirit of Anacreon to help them harmonize about
> > love
> > > > and wine in a conventional neo-classic manner, and the beauty of
> their
> > > > singing is irresistible to the gods. If someone gets horny reading
> the
> > > poem
> > > > (or singing the song), that's their problem.
> > > >
> > > > Because if the harmonizers want also to fuck around, they don't say
> so
> > > > here. And they could easily find ways to do so, with or without
> > > Anacreon's
> > > > assistance.
> > > >
> > > > JL
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 1:56 PM Barretts Mail <
> mail.barretts at gmail.com
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> FWIW, the Wikipedia article is at
> > > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anacreontic_Song <
> > > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anacreontic_Song>. While
> frequently
> > > not
> > > >> followed, original research is prohibited on Wikipedia as it is a
> > > >> tertiary-sourced encyclopedia.
> > > >>
> > > >> The comment about the song being bawdy is not sourced, so that is
> > > original
> > > >> research, but I think "To Anacreon in Heav’n” is clearly bawdy even
> if
> > > >> judged by today’s standards.
> > > >>
> > > >> ###
> > > >> "And, besides I'll instruct you, like me, to intwine
> > > >> "The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine.”
> > > >> ###
> > > >>
> > > >> The LA Times says that the song is a paean to drinking and sex (
> > > >> https://tinyurl.com/y4nv6xbp <https://tinyurl.com/y4nv6xbp>).
> > > >>
> > > >> Benjamin Barrett (he/his/him)
> > > >> Formerly of Seattle, WA
> > > >>
> > > >> On 21 Jan 2021, at 04:54, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Wikipedia considers the turgid English song, "To Anacreon in
> Heav'n"
> > > >>> (ca.1770), to be "bawdy":
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "The song, through its bawdy lyrics, gained popularity in London
> and
> > > >>> elsewhere beyond the Anacreontic Society."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The lyrics irreverently and humorously imagine the enthusiasm of
> the
> > > gods
> > > >>> to desert Olympus and join the harmonious singers of the
> Anacreontic
> > > >>> Society, against the wishes of Zeus.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> (N.b., a Brit at Quora.com assured followers that the U.S. national
> > > >> anthem
> > > >>> was based on a "pornographic song," but nothing could be less
> > > >> pornographic
> > > >>> than a bunch of drunks trying to sing these lyrics to the same
> melody
> > > as
> > > >>> the "Star-Spangled Banner.")
> > > >>>
> > > >>> JL
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > > truth."
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> --
> Andy Bach
> Afbach at gmail.com
> Not at my desk
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
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