[Ads-l] Word: pantser, seat-of-the-pants, seat-of-the-pantser

Tue Mar 29 20:24:50 UTC 2022

Yes, another of those good old pleonastic reversatives; cf. *string/de-string
(beans), pit/de-pit (cherries), worm/de-worm (puppies), **peel/unpeel
(oranges), thaw/unthaw (frozen squid), loosen/unloosen (ties), *and—at
least for Amelia Bedelia—*dust/undust (the furniture).*
LH

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 4:13 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Excellent work, Ben.
> Here is an instance of de-pantsing in 1926.
>
> Date: June 8, 1926
> Newspaper: Daily News
> Newspaper Location: New York, New York
> Article: TROUSERS STUNT THUGS GLEAN $163
> Quote Page 8, Column 3
> Database: Newspapers.com
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> Thugs, adopting the new de-pantsing method now in vogue in best
> criminal circles, shook down James McKinley, manager of the Park Motor
> Sales company at 563 East 149th st., for $163. Getting his roll, they
> divested him of his trousers, which they used to bind his legs. Then,
> tossing him under a display car, they fled.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 3:51 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From the archives...
> >
> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2012-July/120672.html
> > From: Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu>
> > Date: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:17 PM
> > Subject: de-pantsing (1930), pantsing (1931)
> > To: <ADS-L at listserv.uga.edu>
> >
> > Forrest Wickman has a Slate Explainer about "pantsing" -- formerly
> > called "debagging" or "depantsing":
> >
> >
> http://www.slate.com/articles/life/explainer/2012/07/where_did_pantsing_come_from_.html
> >
> > I supplied him with some cites from Genealogybank that antedate the OED
> > entries:
> >
> > * de(-)pants, v. (OED3 1939)
> >
> > 1930  _Tampa Morning Tribune_ 4 Feb. 8/4 Depantsing an Officer. Mrs.
> > Anna Rubenstein of 408 Harrison avenue, South End, paid an aggregate
> > fine of $245, of which part was for tearing the trousers off of
> > Officer Arthur D. Timmins. [reprinted from Boston Dispatch]
> >
> > 1930 _Rockford (Ill.) Daily Republic_ 21 Feb. 1/8 With the arrest of
> > Miss Lois Cohen, 18, and her companion, Francis Hoffman, who have
> > admitted 40 robberies of filling stations, police said today they
> > believed they had the pair who has been "de-pantsing" taxicab drivers.
> >
> > * pants, vbl. n. (OED3 1943)
> >
> > 1931 _Riverside (Calif.) Daily Press_ 11 June 6/2 "Pantsing" was
> > declared as a weapon of defense and offense. To have one's pants taken
> > off or ripped off is the deadliest insult an opponent could suffer,
> > and many were insulted more than once last night.
> >
> > * pants, v.  (OED3 1972)
> >
> > 1931 _Riverside (Calif.) Daily Press_ 11 June 6/3 One battle yell was
> > used by both sides and it struck terror into those against whom it was
> > hurled -- "Pants 'em."
> >
> > --bgz
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 3:38 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for your responses, MAM and LH.
> > >
> > > "pants" and "depants" are a pair of words that look like antonyms but
> > > are actually synonyms.
> > >
> > > Green’s Dictionary of Slang has the following citation for "pants"
> > > with the sense mentioned by LH.
> > > https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/cpga4dq
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > pants v.
> > > (mainly juv.) to remove someone’s trousers whether they like it or not.
> > >
> > > 1945 [US] in G. Legman Limerick (1953) 339: He’d catch something neat
> > > / In a Pullman retreat, / Say ‘How do you do?’ and then pants it.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Here is a citation for "depants" which I am sure can be antedated.
> > >
> > > Year: 2005
> > > Title: Bullying From Both Sides
> > > Author: Walter B. Roberts, Jr.
> > > Quote Page 85
> > > Database: Google Books Preview
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > At some point during the delay, a decision was made to depants one of
> > > the new team members. A ruckus ensued at the back of the bus and soon,
> > > after quite a struggle, the deed was completed.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Garson
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:33 AM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > or "pantser" = 'one who pants' (from the transitive verb "to pants",
> > > which
> > > > I learned in summer camp, not the intransitive "to pant").
> > > >
> > > > Merriam-Webster online, s.v. "pants":
> > > >
> > > > transitive verb <
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transitive>
> > > > US,  informal : to yank down the pants of (someone) as a prank or
> > > jokeSandler
> > > > plays Dave Buznik, a Brooklyn-born wimp, a patsy, a schlemiel so
> > > > mild-mannered he makes other people want to pants him.
> > > > No separate entry for the agentive noun, but it's a productive
> process...
> > > > LH
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:19 AM Mark Mandel <markamandel at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Not to be confused with "Panzer".
> > > > >
> > > > > MAM
> > > > > gdaravvf*
> > > > >
> > > > > * grin, duck, and run away very very fast
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022, 6:04 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The lecturer in a YouTube video I watched recently discussed
> > > different
> > > > > > strategies for writing novels. A "plotter" creates a detailed
> outline
> > > > > > specifying the characters and story arcs. A "pantser" uses a
> > > > > > seat-of-the-pants methodology. The characters, events, and plot
> are
> > > > > > discovered via the writing process.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The word "pantser" is listed in neither the Oxford English
> Dictionary
> > > > > > nor Green's Dictionary of Slang. The OED does have this entry:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > > > seat-of-the-pants, adj.
> > > > > > Of a person: tending to act instinctively, spontaneously, or
> > > > > > expediently. Of an activity: done on the basis of practical
> > > experience
> > > > > > rather than technical knowledge; informal; inexact.
> > > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The OED's first citation for "seat-of-the-pants" is dated 1935.
> Here
> > > > > > is a 1932 antedating.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Date: July 3, 1932
> > > > > > Newspaper: The Atlanta Constitution
> > > > > > Newspaper Location: Atlanta, Georgia
> > > > > > Article: Teaching the Pilot To Fly Blind
> > > > > > Author: Hugh Sexton
> > > > > > Section: Sunday Magazine
> > > > > > Quote Page 4, Column 1
> > > > > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > > > They all learned to fly, however, by the "seat of the pants"
> method,
> > > > > > as they describe flying by instinct, and are starting all over
> again
> > > > > > to learn the new instrument flying.
> > > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The phrase "seat-of-the-pantser" was in circulation by 1959
> although
> > > > > > the first spelling I encountered used a "z" instead of an "s".
> The
> > > > > > domain was amateur driving at a sports car event:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Date: October 28, 1959
> > > > > > Newspaper: Oakland Tribune
> > > > > > Newspaper Location:
> > > > > > Article: Sports Car Events
> > > > > > Quote Page 58D, Column 1 and 2
> > > > > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > > > Rally: 1: Buccaneer's Rally. For seniors, novices,
> > > Seat-of-the-Pantzers.
> > > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The first instance of "pantser" I located appeared in a 1994
> book by
> > > > > > entrepreneur Jim Schell. Schell created the word via truncation
> > > > > > (although earlier instances may exist). He used the word in the
> > > > > > business domain:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [ref] 1994 (1993 Copyright), The Brass-Tacks Entrepreneur by Jim
> > > > > > Schell, Chapter 1: Not Every Small Businessman Is an
> Entrepreneur,
> > > > > > Quote Page 5 and 6, Henry Holt and Company, New York. (Verified
> with
> > > > > > scans) [/ref]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Begin excerpt from page 5]
> > > > > > My favorite? Seat-of-the-pantser. The Gospel of Basic Business
> > > > > > Strategies According to Matulef: no policy manuals, no
> precedents, no
> > > > > > logical order. As in, straight from the seat of the pants. OK,
> > > > > > seat-of-the-pantser is too long, with too many syllables. We'll
> > > > > > shorten it to pantser.
> > > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Begin excerpt from page 6]
> > > > > > The pantser is an unsophisticated, entry-level small business
> owner
> > > > > > and is not to be confused with the more sophisticated
> entrepreneur.
> > > > > > The pantser's primary business motivations are survival and
> > > > > > sustenance, the entrepreneur's creativity and growth.
> > > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Garson O'Toole
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > >
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