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I've had students, generally from central Ohio, who have the same
distinction (with or without a number). That area tends to
vacillate between the two, but southern Ohio is consistently
"quarter till" with or without a number. Northern Ohio is
"quarter to" territory. Occasionally "quarter
of" is heard, but it seems to be receding. BTW, I have no feel
for "kworter" vs. "korter"; but would
"korter" users also say "kort" for
"quart"?<br><br>
Didn't we cover this topic thoroughly a year or two ago?<br><br>
At 09:33 AM 7/17/2007, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">----------------------
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Sender: American Dialect Society
<ADS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU><br>
Poster: Jamie Carpenter
<jcarpentercc@HOTMAIL.COM><br>
Subject: Re: "until" vs
"before" or "to"<br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
I say "quarter till" by itself and "quarter to" with
a number - i.e., "quarter to 6." My roommate always says
"quarter of," which I dislike because half the time I mishear
and think she said "quarter after."<br><br>
<dl><br>
<dd>From: Beverly Flanigan <flanigan@OHIO.EDU></i><br>
<dd>Reply-To: American Dialect Society
<ADS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU></i><br>
<dd>To: ADS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU</i><br>
<dd>Subject: Re: "until" vs "before" or
"to"</i><br>
<dd>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 00:09:53 -0400</i><br>
<dd>---------------------- Information from the mail header
-----------------------<br>
<dd>Sender: American Dialect Society
<ADS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU><br>
<dd>Poster: Beverly Flanigan
<flanigan@OHIO.EDU><br>
<dd>Subject: Re: "until" vs
"before" or "to"<br>
<dd>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<dd>At 10:46 PM 7/16/2007, you wrote:<br>
<dd>>---------------------- Information from the mail header<br>
<dd>>-----------------------<br>
<dd>>Sender: American Dialect
Society <ADS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU><br>
<dd>>Poster: sagehen
<sagehen@WESTELCOM.COM><br>
<dd>>Subject: Re: "until" vs
"before" or "to"<br>
<dd>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> >Did the announcer say "until" or
"till"? "Till" is more common, and the<br>
<dd>> >standard term in the Midland (and South, I believe).
It goes way back,<br>
<dd>> >noted in early travel journals as of Scotch-Irish
origin. Dictionaries<br>
<dd>> >cite it as a separate lexical item, if I'm not mistaken,
more related to<br>
<dd>> >"to" than to "until." (I don't
have my sources here at home, but I've<br>
<dd>> >cited this in my Encyclopedia of Appalachia entry of 2006,
and Michael<br>
<dd>> >Montgomery has discussed it long before that.) As a
common daily usage, it<br>
<dd>> >goes deep: I always tell my students that I, a Northerner
born and bred,<br>
<dd>> >will always say "quarter to," but my Indiana/Ohio
son will forever say<br>
<dd>> >"quarter till." The third option is usually
"quarter of"; I've never heard<br>
<dd>> >"quarter before" (or 15 minutes before).
This seems to me simply<br>
<dd>> >dialectal, not semantic. I forget where you live, Sage
Hen?<br>
<dd>> ><br>
<dd>> >Beverly Flanigan<br>
<dd>> >Ohio University<br>
<dd>> ><br>
<dd>> >At 08:02 PM 7/16/2007, you wrote:<br>
<dd>> >>---------------------- Information from the mail
header<br>
<dd>> >>-----------------------<br>
<dd>> >>Sender: American
Dialect Society <ADS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU><br>
<dd>> >>Poster: sagehen
<sagehen@WESTELCOM.COM><br>
<dd>> >>Subject: "until"
vs "before" or "to"<br>
<dd>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<dd>> ------<br>
<dd>> >>-<br>
<dd>> >><br>
<dd>> >>(a) It is now 25 minutes until 6.<br>
<dd>> >>(b) It is now 25 minutes before 6.<br>
<dd>> >>(c) It is now 25 minutes to 6.<br>
<dd>> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
<dd>> >>What's the difference?<br>
<dd>> >><br>
<dd>> >> (a) feels wrong to me, unless sthg important is
going to happen at 6.<br>
<dd>> >><br>
<dd>> >> (b) & (c) as simple announcements of the time
seem right.<br>
<dd>> >><br>
<dd>> >>Is this just me, or do others have the same sense?
I would probably never<br>
<dd>> >>have thought of this if one of our local radio
announcers didn't use the<br>
<dd>> >>"until" form regularly, catching my
attention. Most of them say "before."<br>
<dd>> >>AM<br>
<dd>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
<dd>>This particular announcer definitely says
"until." The station is in<br>
<dd>>Canton NY, but its personnel come from all over the
country.<br>
<dd>>I myself would be more likely to say "25 of 6" or
"quarter of" than "<br>
<dd>>till" or "to" or "before." I grew
up in Lincoln NE.<br>
<dd>>AM<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>
<dd>>W stands for >:< War
____Waste___Wiretaps____Witchhunts >:<<br>
<dd>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>>------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<dd>>The American Dialect Society -
<a href="http://www.americandialect.org/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.americandialect.org</a><br><br>
<dd>Sounds like Broadcast Speak--a hypercorrection of "till"
probably intended<br>
<dd>to please all.<br><br>
<dd>------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<dd>The American Dialect Society -
<a href="http://www.americandialect.org/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.americandialect.org</a><br><br>
</dl><br>
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