<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV>Yeah, that's exactly the point - I just don't think 'thus' is user-friendly except for linguists who are used to these bizarre definitions (a good 'hither' one for Menominee is the preverb defined as 'in the hither course of time' - anybody got a good translation for that one?!?).</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>One of the students working as a PA on the project had the following to say (Becky, I hope you don't mind that I'm forwarding it!):</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Hi Monica - I can't remember if I mentioned this when we talked about it before, but I personally like to gloss relative roots with an X. So aeN- would be 'in X manner', other relative roots would be 'X fast', 'X long', 'X many times', etc. This indicates clearly to me that the relative root denotes a variable that needs to be filled in by an expression elsewhere in the sentence. Not sure if that works for all audiences, but anyway it's another option to consider. I think both 'thus' and 'in that way' are very misleading glosses.</FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">I also totally agree with David Costa's comments about not expecting a dictionary to explain the grammer to people.</FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">-becky</FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV>My first reaction was that using the X would be way too mathmatical-looking, but it does get across the fact that something needs to be filled. Has anyone considered this or done it? I think it's something I would definitely need to get speaker/learner input on before doing!</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>- Monica</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Apr 19, 2006, at 6:22 PM, Wayne Leman wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px; ">I agree with Rich on this. And I prefer using an English definite as I gloss relative roots in our Cheyenne dictionary. Early in my work on Cheyenne I used the Bloomfieldian "thus" but after awhile I realized it didn't make much sense to many English speakers, not to mention Cheyenne speakers for whom we want the dictionary to be user-friendly.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"></FONT> </DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px; ">Hence:</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"></FONT> </DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px; ">Enęheševe 'he did it that way'</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px; ">Ehevoo'o 'that's what he said'</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"></FONT> </DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px; ">Wayne Leman</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BLOCKQUOTE dir="ltr" style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><DIV>Monica,</DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>There are a couple of considerations with relative roots. As I have been arguing for about ten years now (and no one seems to notice), relative roots have properties that suggest they are analogous to head marking. What I mean is the following.</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>We translate simple transitive verb forms with something that suggests the object slot which must be filled.</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">waabamaad</SPAN></B><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><I style="font-style: italic; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; ">vta</SPAN></I><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>'see s.o./s.t. (an.)'</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>Since relative roots analogously license clausal complements, we should gloss them analogously with appropriate indefinites:</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">inaabid</SPAN></B><X-TAB><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><I style="font-style: italic; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; ">vai</SPAN></I><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>'look in a certain direction'</DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">inaabamaad</SPAN></B><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><I style="font-style: italic; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; ">vta</SPAN></I><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>'see s.o./s.t. (an.) looking like s.t.'</DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">apatood</SPAN></B><X-TAB><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><I style="font-style: italic; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; ">vai</SPAN></I><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>'run along a certain route'</DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">onjinawaad</SPAN></B><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><I style="font-style: italic; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; ">vta</SPAN></I><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>'kill s.o. for a certain reason'</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>But with 20/20 hindsight, because the head markings all have null definite readings, it would probably be more accurate to gloss them with definites.</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">waabamaad</SPAN></B><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><I style="font-style: italic; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; ">vta</SPAN></I><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>'see him/her/it (an.)'</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>and</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">inaabid</SPAN></B><X-TAB><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><I style="font-style: italic; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; ">vai</SPAN></I><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>'look in that direction'</DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">inaabamaad</SPAN></B><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><I style="font-style: italic; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; ">vta</SPAN></I><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>'see him/her/it (an.) looking like that'</DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">apatood</SPAN></B><X-TAB><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><I style="font-style: italic; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; ">vai</SPAN></I><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>'run along that route'</DIV><DIV><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">onjinawaad</SPAN></B><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB><I style="font-style: italic; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; ">vta</SPAN></I><X-TAB> <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></X-TAB>'kill him/her/it for that reason'</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>I used the indefinite option in my dictionary, but I'm thinking that if I had it to do over again, I'd go with definites.</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>Rich</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>At 6:42 PM -0500 4/18/06, Monica Macaulay wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); ">I got this very helpful message from David Costa and since it just came to me am taking the liberty of forwarding it to the list. I think the list is set up so that replies just go to the sender and not the list, which is silly. I'll check into changing that.</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); ">- Monica</SPAN><BR style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); ">Begin forwarded message:</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); "><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Helvetica" color="#000000"><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">From:</SPAN></B></FONT><FONT face="Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "> David Costa <</SPAN></FONT><A href="mailto:pankihtamwa@earthlink.net"><FONT face="Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238); -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline; ">pankihtamwa@earthlink.net</SPAN></FONT></A><FONT face="Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">></SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Helvetica" color="#000000"><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">Date:</SPAN></B></FONT><FONT face="Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "> April 18, 2006 3:06:48 PM CDT</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Helvetica" color="#000000"><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</SPAN></B></FONT><FONT face="Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "> Monica Macaulay <</SPAN></FONT><A href="mailto:mmacaula@WISC.EDU"><FONT face="Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238); -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline; ">mmacaula@WISC.EDU</SPAN></FONT></A><FONT face="Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">></SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Helvetica" color="#000000"><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">Cc:</SPAN></B></FONT><FONT face="Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "> Daryl Baldwin <</SPAN></FONT><A href="mailto:baldwidw@muohio.edu"><FONT face="Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238); -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline; ">baldwidw@muohio.edu</SPAN></FONT></A><FONT face="Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">></SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Helvetica" color="#000000"><B style="font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</SPAN></B></FONT><FONT face="Helvetica"><B style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); font-weight: bold; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); font-weight: bold; "> Re: relative roots</SPAN></B></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">Monica:</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">We're currently going through the archaic English words that Bloomfield used</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">in his Menominee lexicon and trying to come up with more colloquial</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">defintions. While thinking about 'thus' and what we could replace it with, I</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">realized that there's an intersecting problem, which is due to the fact that</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">all of the verbs that have 'thus' in their definition - not surprisingly -</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">have the relative root aeN- in them. We were going to change 'thus' to 'in</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">that manner' but it occurs to me that that might be interpreted as a</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">complete definition. So, take the verb that Bloomfield translates as 'it</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">glows thus' - we could change it to 'it glows in that manner' but a</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">dictionary user might not realize that it's a verb that needs a manner adverb</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">- and that using it without one would actually be ungrammatical to a native</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">speaker. Conversely they might not realize how to translate it in a</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">sentence; i.e. if you used this verb with 'brightly' the meaning would be 'it</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">glows brightly' - NOT 'it glows brightly in that manner' or something like</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">that. Have any of you wrestled with this one and come up with a good</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">solution?</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); "></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">Well, it seems to me that the 'thus'/'in that manner' dilemma and the worry</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">about people thinking the gloss is a complete definition are separate</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">issues. In our Miami dictionary, we used 'thus' a lot, but I think that was</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">just because it's all over the Algonquian literature that way and we're so</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">used to it. Perhaps in retrospect '(in) that way' or 'so' might have been a</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">bit more user-friendly since 'thus' is such a marginal word in modern spoken</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">English.</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">A related issue of course is how much info one puts into a dictionary without</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">crossing over the line into being a grammar. I think we probably are all</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">making somewhat different decisions about where to draw that line, and I</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); ">haven't decided yet where it would be drawn in a case like this.</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(130, 0, 130); "></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">And this is the second issue! I think the problem of speakers not knowing</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">exactly how to use a word grammatically just based on its dictionary</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">definition is just unavoidable. In my opinion, at the most one could write</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">'relative root' in the gloss along with the form class, then in the intro</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">refer the user to a grammatical sketch somewhere; or one could explain in</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">the intro that when a word has that prefix and 'thus' (or 'in that manner',</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">or whatever) in its gloss, here's what it means, and see the grammatical</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">sketch. Explaining the details of how to use a relative root ninety</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">different times in a dictionary would just drive people crazy, and they'd</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">just have to refer to the grammar anyway.</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">I've encountered people (not Miamis!) who want Native American languages to</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">be spelled just like English, so that they supposedly won't have to learn</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">any pronunciation rules. When one learns any new language, one has to master</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">that language's spelling and pronunciation idiosyncracies, and one does not</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">have the right to expect the rules to be the same as English. Grammar is</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">the same way -- I've also had people (again, not Miamis) ask "can't we learn</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">this language without any grammar?" The answer is no, of course --</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">Algonquian grammar is SO different from English grammar, anyone who wants to</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">make meaningful use of an Algonquian dictionary is going to have to</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">familiarize themselves with a certain amount of grammar. Using a dictionary</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">of Spanish or Polish or Swahili would be the same way. And you can't</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">make grammar totally transparent in a dictionary.</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">Anyway, I hope these comments are useful.</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); ">Dave</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); "></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); ">Monica Macaulay</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); ">Department of Linguistics</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); ">University of Wisconsin</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); ">1168 Van Hise Hall; 1220 Linden Drive</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); ">Madison, WI 53706</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); ">phone (608) 262-2292; fax (608) 265-3193</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><A href="http://ling.wisc.edu/~macaulay/monica.html"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238); -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline; ">http://ling.wisc.edu/~macaulay/monica.html</SPAN></A></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><X-SIGSEP><PRE style="white-space: pre; ">--
</PRE></X-SIGSEP><DIV>******************************************************************<BR> <BR> Richard A. Rhodes<BR> Department of Linguistics<BR> University of California<BR> Berkeley, CA 94720-2650<BR> Voice (510) 643-7325<BR> FAX (510) 643-5688<BR><BR>******************************************************************</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Monica Macaulay</DIV><DIV>Department of Linguistics</DIV><DIV>University of Wisconsin</DIV><DIV>1168 Van Hise Hall; 1220 Linden Drive</DIV><DIV>Madison, WI 53706</DIV><DIV>phone (608) 262-2292; fax (608) 265-3193</DIV><DIV><A href="http://ling.wisc.edu/~macaulay/monica.html">http://ling.wisc.edu/~macaulay/monica.html</A></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>