testing

[Arden Ogg]

Bryan has modified my account, and asked me to test it. 
Nothing new to add, but this is a wonderful discussion! 
...Arden

On 2013-03-07, at 1:42 PM, Amy Dahlstrom wrote:

> Arok also found that he cannot post to the list.  Here's what he sent:
> 
> (and again, thanks to everyone for the wonderful comments!  I hasten to say that it's not at all a "paper" that I am doing -- I am just a discussant for someone else's paper.  As part of those remarks I wanted to mention the lip-pointing practice, but didn't want to make any sweeping claim based on just my observations in a couple of communities so I posted here to find out how widespread the practice is.   Now, some one (or more) of YOU should write a paper on this!)
> 
> -- Amy
> ________________________
> 
> From: Wolvengrey, Arok
> Sent: March 7, 2013 10:32 AM
> To: Algonquian Conference List
> Subject: RE: pointing, not with finger
> 
> Apologies for the late addition.  I wanted to ask a range of people about Plains (and Woods) Cree (ninanâskomâwak my colleagues Doreen Oakes and Solomon Ratt and the discussants on the Cree Word of the Day facebook site), and Saulteaux (mîkwêc, Margaret Cote) for their insights.
> 
> Lip-pointing is common and preferred among all, sometimes augmented with head motions - not so much the chin specifically.  This is attributed to many things, just as in the many contributions made already.  It is used to be more private/less obvious when referring to someone - whether gossiping about someone (sorry, Jeff, it happens no matter what Elders may attempt to proscribe ;-)), or checking someone out.  It's used because the hands are often busy, with work, hunting, etc. and it is a way to do two things at once.  Hunting also provides the need not to spook an animal with a sudden obvious movement.  It is also seen as much more respectful of others than finger pointing.
> 
> The avoidance of pointing at people with the index finger is similarly explained in a wide range of ways - from the feeling that there's nothing really wrong with it, it's just "not our way", to the feeling that it is simply rude, to connections with a personal energy field (either you damage your own energy when pointing or you invade another person's energy).  It can be seen as challenging, again sometimes beyond the physical, and was described at one time by one Elder as "witchy".  For some it has connotations of challenges not only between people but between people and animals, people and spiritual beings, and between different kinds of spiritual beings.  No-one specifically singled out pointing at animals or locations as something to avoid, except one very knowledgeable and traditional young man from the Nelson House region of Woods Cree territory in northern Manitoba, who mentioned a prohibition against pointing at beaver dams (with serious consequences of sudden storms).
> 
> Just about everyone is taught not to point with a finger, though some allow that the whole open hand can be used to indicate direction.  Others say that finger pointing is used, when scolding is concerned, and it is an obvious sign that "this is serious".  I was particularly interested (and somewhat surprised) to learn that finger pointing wasn't considered particularly offensive by my Saulteaux colleague, although she did admit that she would definitely not point at anyone older than herself.
> 
> I think Ives' observation about the number 7 (though not in Cree) being linked to the index finger makes sense if you count the thumb as one and six, but the derivation from "point at" certainly raises the question of if and when pointing might have fallen out of fashion.  Oddly enouogh, given all the observations above, the curretn Cree word for index finger is itwahikanicihcân "pointing finger".  Things that make you go hmmm.
> 
> Finally, I would like to add one observation about a different hand gesture.  Both my wife, Jean Okimâsis (from White Bear in the southeast of Sask), and my colleague, Doreen Oakes (from Nekaneet in the southwest of Sask), remember a hand gesture that their grandmothers used when indicating dismissal or disgust at someone/something.  The hand is held loosely closed with the fingers and thumb together forward, then the hand is moved away from the body (downwards or towards the person) while the fingers open - sort of like throwing something away or to the ground.  This can be accompanied by a verbal sign of distaste or disgust as well (I won't repeat what my wife calls me, but Doreen quoted her grandmother with "omisi kititêyimitin "this is what I think of you").  I believe, this is, in fact, the Plains sign language gesture for "dirty".
> 
> Best wishes on the paper, Amy.
> 
> Arok Wolvengrey