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thanks, Mary Ann, how interesting! <br>
<br>
I wanted to report back to you all. I spoke as a discussant on
Saturday morning for a talk by John Haviland, who was talking about
Tzotzil gestures (including pointing) and how they have been used in
a home-sign system in a family with three deaf siblings. I
mentioned the Algonquian practice of pointing with the lip or chin
(and described how my query on Wed. morning just blew up everyone's
in-box with all the replies -- sorry, everyone!), which is so
widespread. I said that different people reported different reasons
or motivations for the practice, but it seemed to have become a
positive marker for native communities, something that sets the
communities off from mainstream U.S./Canadian culture. So I
wondered if any of the gestures that Haviland was analyzing might be
functioning in a similar way, as something not shared by the Spanish
speakers of Chiapas; if so, it seemed quite fitting that such
gestures could form the basis of a sign language for the deaf
members of the community, reinforcing the cultural ties. (I also
had a few things to say about the possible discourse organization of
the Tzotzil signing, not related to anything specifically
Algonquian.) <br>
<br>
thanks again to all of you!<br>
Amy<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/11/2013 5:08 PM, Mary Ann Corbiere
wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:513E1D99020000210005185D@lugwout.laurentian.ca"
type="cite">
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<div>Hello everyone.</div>
<br>
<div>By ironic coincidence, at a conference I attended this past
weekend, an Elder who presented some teachings to an audience of
over 30 people, pointed with his finger 3 or 4 times at various
members of the audience, albeit as he was making teasing remarks
about the people he was pointing at. The Elder is one who is
highly regarded for his traditional knowledge by people in the
Lake Huron region and perhaps beyond (by people in other regions
of Ontario or across the country).</div>
<br>
<div>I didn't overhear any murmurs of how inappropriate some might
have felt this action was. (Nishnaabek usually don't hesitate to
comment under their breath to a friend if someone does and says
something that strikes them as inappropriate in some way.)</div>
<br>
<div>Just FYI</div>
<br>
<div>MAC<br>
<br>
>>> Anne-Marie Baraby <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:baraby.anne-marie@UQAM.CA"><baraby.anne-marie@UQAM.CA></a>
03/09/13 4:37 PM >>><br>
Hi,<br>
<div>I asked about what is going on in another native language,
berber (tachelhit dialect) spoken in south of Morrocco and I
had the following answer that I translate in English: </div>
<br>
<div>"In berber culture (south of Morocco), pointing with the
finger is impolite and may be perceived as aggressive (above
all, when one look at the person in the eyes). What is
preferred in that culture is a chin movement toward the
person. Sometimes, one also use the hand, but with opened
fingers (I mean that the hand has to be opened, not closed).
This is an interesting matter probably linked to oral
cultures."</div>
<br>
<div>Anne-Marie Baraby </div>
<br>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma;
font-size: 13px; ">Bonjour,</span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma;
font-size: 13px; "><br>
</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:
Tahoma; font-size: 13px; "> </span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma;
font-size: 13px; "><br>
</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:
Tahoma; font-size: 13px; ">Dans la culture berbère (sud du
Maroc), pointer avec le doigt est impoli et pourrait être
même agressif (surtout lorsqu'on regarde la personne dans
les yeux). Ce qui est privilégié dans cette culture, c'est
le mouvement du menton en direction de la personne ciblée.
Parfois, on utilise aussi la main, mais avec les doigts
ouverts (je veux dire ici que la main doit être ouverte, et
non pas fermée).</span><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; "> </span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma;
font-size: 13px; "><br>
</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:
Tahoma; font-size: 13px; ">Voilà, c'est une thématique
intéressante qui est surtout liée aux cultures orales.</span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma;
font-size: 13px; "> </span><br>
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma"><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br>
</span></font><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; ">Abdallah El
Mountasser</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma;
font-size: 13px; "> </span><br>
<div>
<div>Le 2013-03-06 à 08:54, Amy Dahlstrom a écrit :</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div>Hello Algonquianists,<br>
<br>
I'm a discussant at an upcoming conference on gesture,
and one thing I thought I would mention to the
(extremely diverse) audience is the practice among at
least some of the Algonquian peoples of pointing with
the lips or with the chin, rather than pointing with the
finger.<br>
<br>
I would like to ask you all how widespread this practice
is. And for native speakers (native pointers? :-) ), do
you have any intuitions about why pointing with the
finger is avoided? Would it seem rude to point with the
finger? Or inappropriate in some other way?<br>
<br>
thanks in advance for any thoughts you can share!<br>
<br>
Amy<br>
<br>
P.S. if you hit "reply" remember that you are replying
to the whole list! :-)<br>
<br>
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