<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Guillaume,<br></div> I think it's a mistake to think of <i>āta</i> as a subordinator. That's getting trapped by its usual translation. It's just an adverb, like <i>doch</i> in German, which is cognate with <i>though</i> in English but differs in that it is <font size="1">NOT</font> a subordinator, and, by the way, has a similar meaning/function to <i>āta</i>. Once you recognize that--that <i>āta</i> is a simple adverb syntactically--then it all <i></i> becomes simple. Incorporation as part of a preverb is not unexpected. That it can appear in non-subordinate clauses becomes trivial. The questions then become all semantic-pragmatic. What presuppositions/inferences does <i>āta</i> suspend? etc.<br><br></div>Rich Rhodes<br><div> </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Bill Jancewicz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bill_jancewicz@sil.org" target="_blank">bill_jancewicz@sil.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Dear Guillaume,<div><br></div><div>In Naskapi (northern Quebec) the âta- is realized as âti-, and is in a class of "modal" preverbs that can also occur outside the preverb string (discontinuous to the verb) but commonly occur just after the tense marking preverb (and before the verb), as you have in your Cree text.</div><div><br></div><div>But it is not unusual to find such forms outside the verbal complex, even with other words intervening between âti and the verbal complex.</div><div><br></div><div>Bill Jancewicz</div><div><br><div><div><div class="h5"><div>On Oct 20, 2015, at 10:54 AM, Guillaume Jacques wrote:</div><br></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr">Dear Arok and Kees,<div><br></div><div>Thank you so much for your input; in most of Kees' examples, âta appears as the first element of the verbal complex, before the personal prefixes and the e=, but in his first example, âta appears between e and the verb stem; my knowledge of Cree is really minimal, so would something like (1) be a correct analysis for the first verb? </div><div>(1) e=âta=macitwâ-yek</div><div> conjunct=concessive=act_in_an_evil_way(VAI)-2pl(conjunct_order)</div><div><br></div><div>If this is the case, the same text attests examples of both e=âta=V and âta=e=V.</div><div><br></div><div>Guillaume</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-10-19 20:58 GMT+02:00 Wolvengrey, Arok <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:awolvengrey@firstnationsuniversity.ca" target="_blank">awolvengrey@firstnationsuniversity.ca</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt">I have no evidence of ata-, though âta- (with the long vowel and thus the same as the free concessive) has been recorded. I suspect, however, that this may have come from <an>
instance<s> of intrusive material occurring within the preverb string, such that this might be a fairly rare occurrence. Sorry I can't at this time comment further on whether there is any real difference between the two.<br>
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<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Aboriginal Sans"">ᐋᐧᐱ ᑭᐦᐃᐤ</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">Arok Wolvengrey</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Professor, Algonquian Languages and Linguistics and</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Department Head of Indigenous Languages, Arts and Cultures</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">First</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> Nations University of Canada</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">1 First Nations Way</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Regina</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">, SK S4S 7K2</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span></p><div><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">phone: <a href="tel:%28306%29%20790-5950%20ext.%203310" value="+13067905950" target="_blank">(306) 790-5950 ext. 3310</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">fax: <a href="tel:%28306%29%20790-5995" value="+13067905995" target="_blank">(306) 790-5995</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">e-mail: <a href="mailto:awolvengrey@fnuniv.ca" target="_blank">awolvengrey@fnuniv.ca</a></span></p>
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<div style="direction:ltr"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2"><b>From:</b> Algonquiana [<a href="mailto:algonquiana-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">algonquiana-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>] on behalf of Guillaume Jacques [<a href="mailto:rgyalrongskad@gmail.com" target="_blank">rgyalrongskad@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> October 19, 2015 8:25 AM<span><br>
<b>To:</b> Algonquian Conference List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Algonquiana] ata- and âta 'although' in Cree<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Dear Algonquianists,
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<div>I am looking for information on the use of the subordinator concessive prefix
<i>ata</i>- in Cree (derived from <i>âta </i>'although'). I tried to find examples in several text collections by Ahenakew and Wolfart, but could only find examples of the free word <i>âta</i>. If any of you has references on the use of this prefix (in particular,
the difference with the free word), and examples sentences from any variety of Cree, I would be very grateful.<br clear="all">
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<div>Best wishes,</div>
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<div>Guillaume</div>
-- <br>
<div>Guillaume Jacques<br>
CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO<br>
<a href="http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques" target="_blank">http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques</a><br>
<div><a href="http://himalco.hypotheses.org/" target="_blank">http://himalco.hypotheses.org/</a></div>
<div><a href="http://panchr.hypotheses.org/" target="_blank">http://panchr.hypotheses.org/</a></div>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>Guillaume Jacques<br>CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO<br><a href="http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques" target="_blank">http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques</a><br><div><a href="http://himalco.hypotheses.org/" target="_blank">http://himalco.hypotheses.org/</a></div><div><a href="http://panchr.hypotheses.org/" target="_blank">http://panchr.hypotheses.org/</a></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><pre><font size="4"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>Richard A. Rhodes
Associate Dean, Undergraduate Division
College of Letters and Science
206 Evans #2924
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720</span></span></font></pre></div></div>
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