Fwd: Re: [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT
Piet Lincoln
linc at HAWAII.RR.COM
Tue Jun 2 09:10:51 UTC 2009
Dear all,
To elaborate a little on Alex's example 2'
(2’) /Awa ene i-viaine ni-*ko* ne-le ne revo/.
/throat 1sg 3sg-like 1sg:R say 1sg:Irr-go Prep sea/
"I want to go to the sea."
I too heard /awa ene/ 'my throat' as an elaboration of 'want' when I was
on Vanikoro in 1978.
It struck me as similar to the Gitua (north coast of New Guinea near
Siassi) usage
* /lua?gu pan/* I like it (my neck for it) /mi laikim em* */
* /yum luam pan/* you like it /yu laikim em
/
*/lua-/ *'neck'; */pan/ *'for' derives from verb* /pani/* 'give'**
Gitua usage for 'want' */gai/ *is a bit different and etymology unknown.
Please get back to me if you can change that:
*/yau ?a gai ?a so?oso?o ve yau bua mago/* I want to chew but I have no
betel nut /mi laik kaikai buai tasol nogat buai.
/
/[examples from /BASICS OF GITUA LANGUAGE */gitua varu pugu/ *(Lincoln
1976)]**
/
Cheers/
//
/Piet /
//
Alex Francois wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> In the interest of discussion, I am forwarding to the list the message
> I sent privately to Hilario & Wayne yesterday. [below]
>
> It will mainly confirm the tendency outlined by Nick and Bill.
> The polysemy /Say>Want/ (as well as the grammaticalisation
> /Say>complementizer/), while it is indeed well represented
> typologically, seems to be a pattern even more densely represented
> among Oceanic languages. This is true even when the forms are not
> cognate.
>
> cheers,
> Alex.
>
> -------- Message original --------
> Sujet : Re: [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT
> Date : Thu, 28 May 2009 13:53:46 +1000
> De : Alex Francois <francois at vjf.cnrs.fr>
> Pour : hilario.desousa at usyd.edu.au
> Copie à : wp.lawrence at auckland.ac.nz
>
>
>
> Hi Hilario and Wayne,
>
> I know of several Oceanic languages from Vanuatu & Solomons [details
> here <http://alex.francois.free.fr/AF-field.htm>] which have two ways
> to translate 'want'.
>
> * The 'lighter' way makes use of a verb 'say' (distinct from a
> verb 'talk'), or a quotative particle normally used for reported
> speech.
> Thus /I _say_ I drink water/ "I'd like to drink some water"
> * The heavier way makes use of a full-fledged verb, generally the
> same as "like/love". Thus /I _like_ that I drink water/.
>
> The second way I call 'heavier', first because the verb like/love is
> often phonologically heavier than the verb 'say'; and also, because
> quite often this second strategy is in fact often a combination of the
> "like" verb with the "say" verb/quotative particle.
>
> * in Araki [Espiritu Santo, Vanuatu] (François 2002):
>
> (1) /Nam *re* na inu ai/.
> /1sg:R say 1sg:Irr drink water/
>
> (1’) /Nam opo-i-a nam *re* na inu ai/.
> /1sg:R like-Tr-3sg 1sg:R say 1sg:Irr drink water/
>
> "I want to drink water."
> (R=Realis; Irr=Irrealis)
>
> * in Teanu [Vanikoro, Solomons]:
>
> (2) /Ni-*ko* ne-le ne revo/.
> /1sg:R say 1sg:Irr-go Prep sea/
>
> (2’) /Awa ene i-viaine ni-*ko* ne-le ne revo/.
> /throat 1sg 3sg-like 1sg:R say 1sg:Irr-go Prep sea/
> "I want to go to the sea."
>
> * in Mwotlap [Banks Is, Vanuatu] (François 2003):
>
> (3) / Nok * so* mitiy/.
> /1sg Quot~Desider sleep/
>
> (3’)/ No ne-myo-s* so* mitiy/.
> /1sg Stat-like Quot~Cplzr sleep/
> "I want to sleep."
> (Quot=Quotative; Cplzr= Complementiser)
>
> Refs:
>
> * François, Alexandre. 2002. /Araki: A disappearing language
> of Vanuatu/. Pacific Linguistics, 522. Canberra: Australian
> National University. 375 pp.
> * François, Alexandre. 2003. /La sémantique du prédicat en
> mwotlap (Vanuatu)/. Collection Linguistique de la Société de
> Linguistique de Paris. Leuven-Paris: Peeters. 408 pp.
>
> On another topic, several languages in the same area have a polysemy
> '/sore, hurt > extremely, two much/'. However, nowhere do these forms
> mean anything like WANT.
>
> best,
> Alex.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> f.lichtenberk at auckland.ac.nz wrote:
>> Hi Hilario and Wayne,
>>
>> I think the person in Germany Andy Pawley has in mind is Olesya Khanina, who was working on a cross-linguistic study of 'want' a few years ago. She was at the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig at the time, and her address was khanina at eva.mpg.de.
>>
>> Frank Lichtenberk
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: papuanlanguages-bounces at anu.edu.au [mailto:papuanlanguages-bounces at anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Andrew Pawley
>> Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 1:37 p.m.
>> To: Papuan languages discussion list
>> Cc: an-lang at anu.edu.au; Wayne Lawrence (ARTS ASI); papuanlanguages at anu.edu.au
>> Subject: Re: [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT
>>
>> Dear Hilario and Wayne
>>
>> There are probably many other comparative sources but I suggest you start with a look at Cliff Goddard and Anna Wierzbicka (eds), 1994. Semantic and Lexical Universals, 387-421. Benjamins: Amsterdam. This has essays on various languages that describe how 'want' and the editors' 50 or so other putative universals are expressed.
>>
>> In the Papuan (Trans New Guinea family) language I know best, Kalam, 'X wants something' is expressed literally as 'X says "I get something!" ', or X says 'we get something!", using the hortative of the verb d- 'get, have, control, etc.' (where an alternative literal translation for 'I get something' might also be 'let me get something'. That is, in Kalam someone's thought processes are expressed as internal quoted speech, and wanting is viewed as a thought process. My paper in that volume is "Kalam exponents of lexico-semantic primitives." I think this mode of expressing want is widespread among Papuan languages of New Guinea.
>>
>>
>> A few years ago a PhD student in Germany wrote to me saying she was looking at the origins of 'want' expressions in Fijian and Polynesian languages, maybe just at the history of the peverbal desiderative particle Fijian via, PPn *fia. Unfortunately I forget her affiliation, maybe it was at one of the MPIs. I have the impression that in Oceanic languages, as in Tok Pisin, desiderative 'want' is likely to be expressed by, or come from a verb of liking. Not surprising, but kind of boring for a typologist looking for extreme sourrces.
>>
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Hilario De Sousa <hilario.desousa at usyd.edu.au>
>> Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:00 am
>> Subject: [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT
>> To: papuanlanguages at anu.edu.au, an-lang at anu.edu.au
>> Cc: wp.lawrence at auckland.ac.nz
>>
>>
>>> *sorry for cross-posting*
>>>
>>> Dear Austronesianists/Papuanists,
>>>
>>> Wayne Lawrence (wp.lawrence at auckland.ac.nz) is looking into the
>>> grammaticalisatin of 'desideratives' (both lexical and grammatical).
>>> For instance, English «want» is grammaticalised from an original
>>> meaning of 'lack'. An interesting case is the Japanese verbal suffix
>>> «-tai», which is said to come from «itai» 'sore, hurts', via
>>> 'extremely'
>>> (the earliest instances of -itai, in the late Heian period, have the
>>> interpretation of 'very'. The path SORE --> EXTREMELY is also found
>>> in German «sehr» 'very', c.f. English «sore»). Do you know of any
>>> other examples of EXTREMELY --
>>>
>>> WANT? The etymology of WANT in other languages would also be hugely
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> Hilário de Sousa on behalf of Wayne Lawrence
>>> _______________________________________________
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dr Alex FRANÇOIS
>
> LACITO - CNRS, France
>
> 2009-2011: Visiting Fellow
> Dpt of Linguistics
> Research School of Pacific and Asian Studies
> Australian National University
> ACT 0200, Australia
>
> Home address:
> 20 Hamelin Crescent, Narrabundah, ACT 2604, Australia
> ph: [h] (+61)-2-6166 5569
> [w] (+61)-2-6125 1664
> [mob] (+61)-4-50 960 042
>
> http://alex.francois.free.fr
>
>
> --
>
> Dr Alex FRANÇOIS
>
> LACITO - CNRS, France
>
> 2009-2011: Visiting Fellow
> Dpt of Linguistics
> Research School of Pacific and Asian Studies
> Australian National University
> ACT 0200, Australia
>
> Home address:
> 20 Hamelin Crescent, Narrabundah, ACT 2604, Australia
> ph: [h] (+61)-2-6166 5569
> [mob] (+61)-4-50 960 042
>
> http://alex.francois.free.fr
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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