NZ usage of "bro"

Fri Jan 22 02:10:26 UTC 2010

Wolfgang and all..

It would be interesting to get more documentation of that use of  
English "bro" you have heard in NZ. It is used elsewhere? Is this an  
emerging sense which is different from the more widely-known usage or  
casual intimacy? Is it restricted at all (e.g. age-related or  
regional)? Is it specifically racist in some way? I also wonder if the  
word "bro" itself is derogatory even in that situation or is the  
negatively more in the implicit attitude of the speaker? For example,  
someone might make the same statement about the homeless in Los  
Angeles, saying, "Look at those dudes," but the word "dude" would not  
necessarily be derogatory.

-Bill

On Jan 22, 2010, at 9:00 AM, an-lang-request at anu.edu.au wrote:

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>   1. Re: connotation of English "bro" (Wolfgang Sperlich)
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:57:34 +0000
> From: Wolfgang Sperlich <wsperlich at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [An-lang] connotation of English "bro"
> To: <bill-donna_davis at ntm.org>, <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
> Message-ID: <BAY112-W123685BEFBC071C1F2B913A2630 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Greetings to all yo bros out there
>
>
>
> Never has a saying been more true in this context than Firth's "you  
> know a word by the company it keeps". On my way to work I pass a  
> City Mission (in Auckland, NZ) where homeless people congregate, and  
> on more than one ocasion I have heard the highly respectable passers- 
> by say "look at those bros" - definitely in a derogatory manner. QED.
>
>
>
> Wolfgang Sperlich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: bill-donna_davis at ntm.org
>> To: an-lang at anu.edu.au
>> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:55:03 +0800
>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] connotation of English "bro"
>>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> Waruno,
>>
>> I question the idea of _bro_ in English being either derogatory or
>> mening "white trash male." I have never heard it used in either of
>> those ways, but rather it is used extensively among males of a  
>> certain
>> generation (mine, in fact... i.e. baby boomers, I am 54). It is very
>> much analogous to Australian "mate." It shows a casual intimacy, and
>> it not derogatory at all. The younger generations, such as my
>> daughters and their peers, tend to prefer _dude_ (which  
>> interestingly,
>> is now gender NON-specific! my son-in-law calls my daughter "dude").
>> Others use _bra_ which is cultural imitation of Jamaican/reggae
>> version of _bro_.
>>
>> Also, among the Batak of Palawan island, Philippines, _mistir_ is  
>> used
>> as an English borrowing with the sense of "sir."
>>
>> -Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2010, at 9:00 AM, an-lang-request at anu.edu.au wrote:
>>
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>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor (Elizabeth Pearce)
>>> 2. Re: FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor (David Gil)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:17:43 +1300
>>> From: Elizabeth Pearce <Elizabeth.Pearce at vuw.ac.nz>
>>> Subject: [An-lang] FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor
>>> To: "an-lang at anu.edu.au" <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>>> Message-ID: <C774F427.F9EA%elizabeth.pearce at vuw.ac.nz>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> And bro is used as a term of address among whites as well as among
>>> Maori in New Zealand. (And I imagine in Australia also).
>>> Liz Pearce
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>> From: Waruno Mahdi <mahdi at fhi-berlin.mpg.de>
>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:48:16 +1300
>>> To: Austronesian languages <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>>> Conversation: [An-lang] Linguistic Contact in East Timor
>>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] Linguistic Contact in East Timor
>>>
>>> Thanks David. Yes, this funny use of _mister_ is interesting indeed,
>>> though I haven't heard it yet among Indonesians abroad. The funny
>>> thing about it is, that there had been a Javanese herbal-medicine
>>> (_jamu_) brand since the early 20th century, known as _jamu cap
>>> Nyonya-Meneer_ (lit. 'missus-&-mister brand herbal-medicine').
>>> On the package there was a picture of a Dutch couple, the word
>>> _meneer_ being Dutch (also spelled _mijnheer_) for 'mister'. The
>>> loanword in colloquial Indonesian Malay, _menir_, is/was gender
>>> specific (masculine).
>>>
>>> Also the earlier Portuguese loan _sinyor_ (attested since 17th  
>>> cent.)
>>> was gender specific. Both (_sinyor_ and _menir_) were only used with
>>> regard to white persons. I did not mention either of them earlier,
>>> because they are no longer commonly used in the modern language.
>>>
>>> But the process of borrowing can sometimes have unexpected, or no
>>> longer apparent loopholes. The word _bro_ (short for _brother_)
>>> began to be used some years ago in Malaysia as gender-specific term
>>> of address to a (male) friend. I noticed recently that it has also
>>> started to be used by some young Indonesians.
>>>
>>> In view of the fact, that _bro_ in (American) English has a quite
>>> pronounced derogatory meaning (something like "white-trash male"),
>>> it seems very unlikely that the Malay word was a direct borrowing
>>> from English. I tentatively suspect, therefore, that the original
>>> precursor was _brother_ as term of address amongst Afro-Americans,
>>> and that Malay _bro_ was shortened from _brother_ in Malay itself,
>>> independently of the shortening to _bro_ in English. Does that
>>> sound likely?
>>>
>>> I forgot to mention in my former input that Malay borrowed a number
>>> of adjectives from Arabic, some with masculine ending (e.g. _hakiki_
>>> 'essential'), some with feminine (_alamiah_ 'natural'), but the
>>> loanwords were/are free of any gender connotation in Malay.
>>>
>>> Aloha,
>>> Waruno
>>>
>>>
>>>> Just a footnote to Waruno's excellent summary ...
>>>>
>>>> Any white person who has spent any time in Indonesia will be more
>>>> than familiar with the recent Indonesian loan from English  
>>>> "mister",
>>>> whose denotation is, simply 'white person', and is unmarked not  
>>>> just
>>>> for number but also for gender ...
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>
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>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
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>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:26:38 +0700
>>> From: David Gil <gil at eva.mpg.de>
>>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor
>>> To: "an-lang at anu.edu.au" <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>>> Message-ID: <4B4EAB0E.7000408 at eva.mpg.de>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Waruno Mahdi wrote:
>>>> But the process of borrowing can sometimes have unexpected, or no
>>>> longer apparent loopholes. The word _bro_ (short for _brother_)
>>>> began to be used some years ago in Malaysia as gender-specific term
>>>> of address to a (male) friend. I noticed recently that it has also
>>>> started to be used by some young Indonesians.
>>>>
>>>> In view of the fact, that _bro_ in (American) English has a quite
>>>> pronounced derogatory meaning (something like "white-trash male"),
>>>> it seems very unlikely that the Malay word was a direct borrowing
>>>> from English. I tentatively suspect, therefore, that the original
>>>> precursor was _brother_ as term of address amongst Afro-Americans,
>>>> and that Malay _bro_ was shortened from _brother_ in Malay itself,
>>>> independently of the shortening to _bro_ in English. Does that
>>>> sound likely?
>>>>
>>> Well I'm not sure, but here are three reasons to suppose that it was
>>> the
>>> shortened form _bro_ in English that was directly borrowed ...
>>>
>>> (a) In western Nusantara dialects of Malay/Indonesian, truncation  
>>> to a
>>> monosyllable usually (if not always) retains the final syllable,
>>> rather
>>> than the penultimate, eg. _abang_ > _bang_, _mister_ > _ster_,
>>> _Dapit_ >
>>> _pit_.
>>>
>>> (b) In eastern Nusantara dialects, eg. Papuan Malay, there is no
>>> productive rule of truncation to monosyllabic forms, eg. _kaka_ >
>>> *_ka_
>>> -- and in fact, in Papuan Malay, _bro_ has recently become very 
>>> widespread.
>>>
>>> (c) In Papua at least, my impression is that people -- mostly trendy
>>> teenagers -- who use _bro_ are also likely to associate with other
>>> artifacts of African-American culture, eg. rap music, shoulder bags
>>> with
>>> rasta colours, etc., which suggests to me that they borrowed the  
>>> form
>>> directly from African-American English. (Which is consistent with
>>> other
>>> comments that have been made in recent postings on this subject.)
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> David Gil
>>>
>>> Department of Linguistics
>>> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
>>> Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>>>
>>> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
>>> Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
>>> Webpage: http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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