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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=812050800-07092006>In the
Tok Pisin list we (Ross Clark, Craig Volker, and I) discussed the possible
origins of <EM>maski </EM>'forget it, nevermind' a while ago. Among Pacific
pidgins/creoles, it is apparently only found in Tok Pisin, Rabaul Creole German
(Unserdeutsch), and Chinese Pidgin English. In the latter, it is doucmented as
early as 1769, and its origins are usually said to be from Portuguese <EM>mas
que, </EM>meaning the same as in present-day Tok Pisin.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=812050800-07092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=812050800-07092006>Clark
cited examples from Papia Kristang (Malacca Creole Portuguese) of <EM>maski
</EM>'although' and Malay <EM>meski(pun) </EM>'although; in spite of (the fact
that)', and there is also apparently a Bengali term with a similar form and
meaning. He concluded that as Portuguese was the first European language widely
used in South and East Asia, it is not surpirsing that it widely diffused (Malay
and Begali would be within that area of influence), and suggested the Tok Pisin
form is ultimately from Portuguese but via some form of Malay. The relation to
German <EM>es macht nichts </EM>(the etymology suggested in the standard Tok
Pisin dictionary) is at best a "fortuitous convergence". (Apologies to Ross if I
have misrepresented his thoughts.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=812050800-07092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=812050800-07092006>The
discussion here of Spanish and Tagalog would certainly seem to support
this.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=812050800-07092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=812050800-07092006>Don</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=812050800-07092006>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don Niles</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Acting Director & Senior
Ethnomusicologist</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Institute of Papua New Guinea
Studies</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Box 1432</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Boroko 111</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>PAPUA NEW GUINEA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>tel.: +675 325-4644</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>fax: +675 325-0531</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>email:
ipngs@global.net.pg</FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=812050800-07092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=812050800-07092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> an-lang-bounces@anu.edu.au
[mailto:an-lang-bounces@anu.edu.au] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Paz B.
Naylor<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 7 September 2006 5:44<BR><B>To:</B> 'Paul
Kroeger'; 'Christopher Sundita'<BR><B>Cc:</B>
an-lang@anu.edu.au<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [An-lang]
lia-makalero<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The native Tagalog synonym of<I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"> maski</SPAN></I> is kahi’t<I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"> </SPAN></I>– both generally meaning ‘(not) even/even
if…’.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">(The Panganiban dictionary lists <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">miski/miski na </SPAN></I>as variants of <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">maski </SPAN></I>and <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">kahiman/kahimat/kahit na</SPAN></I> as synonyms of
<I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">maski.</SPAN></I>)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">For example:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 42pt; TEXT-INDENT: -24pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">(a)<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">maski/kahit na ilang subo man lamang, hindi makakain
si Luis dahil sa sakit ng ngipin </SPAN></I>‘not even just a few bites could
Luis eat because of his toothache’;<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 42pt; TEXT-INDENT: -24pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">(b)<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]> <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">maski/kahit na maglamay ka magdamag, hindi mo
matatapos ang ipinangako mo </SPAN></I>‘even if you stay up all night, you won’t
be able to finish what you promised’.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Chris is right: <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">maski </SPAN></I>is<I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"> </SPAN></I>supposed to have been derived from
Spanish <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">mas que </SPAN></I>(which is
attested in Panganiban).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><I><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-STYLE: italic"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-- Paz<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
an-lang-bounces@anu.edu.au [mailto:an-lang-bounces@anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Paul
Kroeger<BR>Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:00 AM<BR>To: Christopher
Sundita<BR>Cc: an-lang@anu.edu.au<BR>Subject: Re: [An-lang]
lia-makalero</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Chris,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">"Maski" is used in Tok Pisin (PNG) to mean 'never mind;
forget it'. I was<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">told it came from German "es macht nichts". How is
it used in Tagalog?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-- Paul Kroeger<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From: "Christopher Sundita"
<csundita@yahoo.com><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:
<an-lang@anu.edu.au><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:00
AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject: Re: [An-lang]
lia-makalero<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> This is Tetum,
correct?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> Could you tell me what the "maski" means? I
am curious, because it's in<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> Tagalog. The etymology is supposedly from
Spanish "más que." If a phrase<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> existed in Portuguese, I would have expected "mais
que" maybe.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> --Chris<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> --- Juliette Huber <schuelietet@yahoo.com>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > Karu belun sira
hotu,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> ><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > ha'u hakarak husu Ita-nia ajuda
kona-ba ema matenek lia-makalero i<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">ninia<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > fatin iha Europa (di'ak liu se iha rai Olanda
ka <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Portugal</st1:place></st1:country-region>).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > Nia razaun katak ha'u hakarak halo
peskiza ba lia-makalero. Maski ha'u<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > rasik sei la'o ba Timor-Leste, di'ak
tebe-tebes se iha ema iha Europa<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">mós<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > ne'ebe prontu ajuda ha'u. Se Ita-Boot sira
hatene ema ne'ebe hakarak<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">ajuda<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > ha'u, favór ida haruka lai mensajen ne'e ka
fó-hatene nia naran ba ha'u.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > Nune'e
de'it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > Ha'u hato'o ha'u-nia obrigadu ba
Ita-nia atensaun no he'in hela<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ita-nia<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > lia-hatán.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> ><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > Juliette
Huber<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Leiden</st1:place></st1:City>, Olanda<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> ><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> ><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> >
---------------------------------<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new
Yahoo.com. Check it out. ><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > An-lang mailing
list<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> >
An-lang@anu.edu.au<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> >
http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> ><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>
__________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> Do You Yahoo!?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> http://mail.yahoo.com<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> An-lang mailing list<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> An-lang@anu.edu.au<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>
http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">An-lang mailing list<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">An-lang@anu.edu.au<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>