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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032250600-24042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Some additional difficulties in identifying the numeral
element in Vanuatu with *RaCep:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032250600-24042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032250600-24042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>- *R in Vanuatu languages is reflected as either /r/ or
zero. The initial consonant of the numeral element is /r/ only in the languages
of Espiritu Santo. Elsewhere (Banks, Malekula, Ambrym, Efate) it's /l/.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032250600-24042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032250600-24042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>- The form of the innovative numerals seems to have been
*lima + *l/rave + N (where N = 1,2,3,4). Many languages have reduced this by
dropping the *lima (e.g. Mota lavea-rua '7'), but it can be seen in its full
form in, e.g. Tolomako lina-rave-rua, Banam Bay ma-ruv-ru '7'.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032250600-24042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>In the word for '6', some Santo languages have dropped the
'1', so Wusi lima-rave '6', rave-rua '7', Mafea m"a-rav"e '6', rav"e-rua '7'.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032250600-24042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>So it looks as if the meaning of the middle element is
something like 'plus' rather than 'hand'.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032250600-24042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032250600-24042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Ross Clark</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> an-lang-bounces@anu.edu.au
[mailto:an-lang-bounces@anu.edu.au] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Richard
Parker<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 23 April 2007 3:00 a.m.<BR><B>To:</B>
an-lang@anu.edu.au<BR><B>Subject:</B> [An-lang] Number Words & Number
Systems - Answer to Laurent Sagart<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>(Oops)</DIV>
<DIV>(...after a period of competition between *RaCep and *lima, *lima finally
<BR>won out, displacing RaCep. It would be strange if *RaCep suddenly resurfaced
<BR>in the Pacific: the total absence of reflexes of *RaCep between Taiwan and
Vanuatu <BR>would be hard to explain.</DIV>
<DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>Well, it certainly would, wouldn't it? But, if *RaCep didn't start in
Taiwan, <BR>but just ended up there, it wouldn´t be so difficult to explain.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It wouldn't be difficult to explain if the entire Western MP area was
swamped </DIV>
<DIV>(quite recently, within the last 2 millenia, by languages originating from
the Orang Laut, Badjau, Sri Vijayans, and other sea-going traders).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I've already pointed out the parallel with Pasismanua (New Britain) -sip,
<BR>but there are others (not very many, it has to be said):</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>'bacin marahin sib' is 5 in Wampur, a North New Guinea (Morobe Prov) An
language. <BR>'bacin marahin' is the 'hand word' as in 'bacin marahin
bisangcwa'=6= 'b-m-1'.<BR>(How you can possibly derive 'bacin marahin bisangcwa'
from PAn *enem <BR>is quite another
matter)<BR>-----------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>I really wasn't trying to prove anything when I started on this project.
<BR>I had always assumed that Austronesian, like Proto-Indo-European, was born
<BR>with a fully-formed symbolic decimal numbering system. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One of the most impressive things about the language family was that much
the <BR>same word meant 5 and hand from Madagascar to Easter Island, and Taiwan
to <BR>New Zealand - half a world apart.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I knew about a very few primitive numbering name/systems in Taiwan, and
just one <BR>in Luzon, but then I glanced at <A
href="http://www.zompist.com/numbers.htm">http://www.zompist.com/numbers.htm</A>
and found there <BR>were scores of 'primitive' numbering systems roughly east of
the Wallace Line. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So I decided to investigate them.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I've found nearly 170 An languages where counting up to 5 is relatively
simple, <BR>but from 5-9 is more primitive, as the 'add 1,2,3,4' system, in
Rukai, or <BR>even something else altogether, like Saisiyat, but not the plain,
simple and <BR>very memorable *enem, *pitu, *walu, *Siwa of PAn.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It shouldn't be logically possible for anyone to 'retreat' to a more
primitive <BR>numbering system if his language has already been handed a very
simple and </DIV>
<DIV>easily memorable symbolic numbering/name system, by their Taiwan immigrant
</DIV>
<DIV>language-founders. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The very obvious answer is that Austronesian settlers in New Guinea, etc,
adopted <BR>the number morphemes and systems of their Papuan neighbours, for
trade and tribute <BR>purposes. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So I added in every Papuan neighbour of those Austronesian speakers, and it
simply <BR>isn't so. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Papuan number morphemes just don't match their neighbour An ones, but,
occasionally,</DIV>
<DIV>at first glance, the local numbering systems do. (This still needs a closer
study to see if <BR>it's absolutely and consistently true). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In some places, Papuan-speakers (and don't forget we are talking about 8
different <BR>language phylae) are quite out-numbered by An speakers, as in
Timor and Flores. <BR>They have adopted An number morphemes for 1-5, or parts of
that system, but not a <BR>lot elsewhere. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So what are we left with ?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1) The numbering systems and phonemes have been adopted from, or adjusted
to, to </DIV>
<DIV>their local neighbours - not completely so. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>2) Simple number symbols came from PAn in Taiwan and 'regressed'?
Really?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>3) Local groups changed over entirely to speaking An, but kept to their
<BR>ancestral number systems?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>4) The 'aberrant' number systems (and, by association, the languages)
</DIV>
<DIV>evolved in just the places where they're still found.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>regards</DIV>
<DIV>Richard Parker<BR>Siargao Island, The Philippines. </DIV>
<DIV>My website at <A
href="http://www.coconutstudio.com">www.coconutstudio.com</A> is about the
island and its people, coastal early humans, fishing, coconuts, bananas and
whatever took my fancy at the time.</DIV>
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