<div>Roger Mills wrote:</div> <div> </div> <div>>Richard Parker wrote:<BR>>> Nghada and Lio in Flores have zua butu (2-4), and ruambutu </div> <div>(2-4).</div> <div>>Does _(m)butu_ in fact mean '4'? In the Tanimbar lgs. (Fordata </div> <div>vutu, Yamdena <BR>>buti, Kei wut) its reflex means '10'. (Forms I assume to be </div> <div>cognate in other <BR>>languages of the area--e.g. Tetum, Timorese, Savu, likely Fiji </div> <div>too-- suggest <BR>>a basic meaning "bundle".) Thus it's possible the Ngadha and Lio </div> <div>forms are <BR>>subtractive, something like 'two/second [from 10]'.</div> <div> </div> <div>It becomes clearer when you see the full 1-10 numbers sequence in </div> <div>Nghada, Lio and (another Flores group I've only just found), </div> <div>Ende, from the same twiglet of MP, Bima-Sumba-Ende-Lio:</div> <div> </div> <div>Lio - esa, rua, têlu, sutu, lima, lima esa, lima rua, ruambutu, </div> <div>terrasa,
sambulu </div> <div><BR>Ngada - esa, zua, telu, wutu, lima, lima esa, lima zua, zua butu, </div> <div>ta esa, sabulu </div> <div><BR>Ende - assa, rua, taru, wutu, rima, rima assa, rima rua, rua </div> <div>mbutu, tarassa, samburu </div> <div> </div> <div>There's a very clear counting system:<BR>1,2,3,4,5 (standard PAn symbolic words, ie, not referring </div> <div>directly to any particular hand part) then, also using PAn </div> <div>symbol-words: 5-1, 5-2, 2-4, then "something" meaning </div> <div>"last-but-one?" then PAn 10. </div> <div> </div> <div>There's a similar system working in Gaura (Kodi), Weyewa, and </div> <div>Lamboya, on Sumba, also in the Bima-Sumba language group, where 8 </div> <div>is pondopata, 4 is pata. </div> <div> </div> <div>9, in Gaura and Lamboya, is banda'iha and <BR>kabanina. In Weyewa, it's iwa, which is your plain old bog <BR>standard PAn. </div> <div> <BR>These Nusa Tenggara languages use almost
the same counting system as:</div> <div> </div> <div>Saisiyat - ?aha?, rosha?, too?, shepat, aseb, sayboshi:, sayboshi </div> <div>o ?aha?, kashpat, aa?h?a, langpez<BR> <BR>except that Saisiyat uses a different, and more 'archaic' </div> <div>construction for 6,7, and 10.</div> <div> </div> <div>and</div> <div>Favorlang - natta, roa, torro, naspaat, achab, rima, addas, </div> <div>nataap, maaspat, tannacho, zchiett</div> <div> </div> <div>Both use a construction involving 1 in "last-but-one" - 9, </div> <div>as do Lio, Ngada, and Ende, 2000 miles from Taiwan.</div> <div> </div> <div>And now that I'm looking harder for this kind of construction, of </div> <div>the number 8 in particular, some similar ones turn up again at </div> <div>the very far East End of New Guinea (under the Papuan 'tail')</div> <div> </div> <div>Nara - kaonamo, lua, koi, vani, ima, kalakoi, kalakoika, </div> <div>kalavani, kalavanika, ouka </div>
<div> </div> <div>Gabadi - ka, rua, koi, vani, ima, karakoi, isu, karavani, </div> <div>karavanika, ouka <BR> <BR>Motu - ta, rua, toi, hani, ima, tauratoi, hitu, taura hani, taura </div> <div>hani ta, gwauta </div> <div> </div> <div>Sinagoro - ta, lualua, toitoi, vativati, imaima, taulatoitoi, </div> <div>taulatoitoi, tebona, taulavativati, taulavativati tebona, </div> <div>gabanana </div> <div> </div> <div>(It's the details that count, and these four use 8-1 for 9, not </div> <div>'last-but-one', so, perhaps, their number systems are not </div> <div>directly correlated with the Taiwan and Flores systems, which </div> <div>clearly are closely related - as numbering systems, I stress).</div> <div><BR>The 'reduction system' Roger Mills mentioned, of counting 7-9 </div> <div>back from the end, is common on Manus Island, 175 miles off the </div> <div>North New Guinea coast, where a typical example is:</div> <div> </div> <div>Leipon -
djix, marui, madjalo, mahah, malimeh, mawono, </div> <div>mandadjalo, mandurui, mandudix, sungol. </div> <div><BR>Roger Mills also wrote:</div> <div>>>[RP] West Tarangan has Karugwa (4-2), Ujir - karua, <BR>>> Dobel - ?aro, Kola - kaFarua, all in Aru.</div> <div>>I'd strongly hypothesize the same for these; in fact there may </div> <div>be >influence from Bugis as a likely contact language, since </div> <div>AFAIK >these are uncommon constructions in Moluccan languages </div> <div>(many >retain reflexes of *walu and *siwa)-- Bug. aru(w)á '8' </div> <div>(*ka+dua) >as well as aserá '9' (*ka+sera, though _sera_ is not </div> <div>easily >relatable to the word for 'one', se?de-- and the final </div> <div>stress is >anomalous in both words).</div> <div> </div> <div>Tarangan (Aru) - etna, rugwa, lat, kaw, lem, dom, dubam, karugwa, </div> <div>ser, urpepa. <BR>8 is clearly related to 2, and probably, via kaw, to 4. </div>
<div> </div> <div>Something similar to the reduction system happens in South </div> <div>Sulawesi:</div> <div>Buginese - seua, dua, tellu, eppa, lima, enneng, pitu, arua, </div> <div>asera, pulo </div> <div>and in another 5 local (Tamanic?) languages, where 8 and 9 relate </div> <div>to 2 and 1.</div> <div> </div> <div>>Otto Chr. Dahl wrote an extensive article on AN numbers ca. 1981 </div> <div>>in NUSA; I believe he also deals with them in one of his books-- though as </div> <div>>I recall, mainly within the Taiwan-PI-Indonesia area. </div> <div> </div> <div>I haven't a library of any sort within 5 days journey. Could I </div> <div>possibly ask for someone to scan these and email them to me?</div> <div><BR>>The languages you're looking at <BR>>presumably have been influenced by non-AN neighbors or </div> <div>>substrates. </div> <div> </div> <div>I'm looking at ALL the An number systems (that I can find) east </div>
<div>of Sulawesi - about 600 of them, plus 110 non-An languages that </div> <div>are still-existing neighbours. (Sub-note to John Lynch, Ross </div> <div>Clark and Alex Francois - those 116 Vanuatu languages don't half </div> <div>clog up the system!)</div> <div><BR>And this is important - when I'm searching for correspondences </div> <div>between number systems, or morphemes, I'm blind to the location </div> <div>of the languages, simply because that info doesn't show up on the </div> <div>page. So, if I mention somewhat unbelievable relationships, they </div> <div>are there, but, as yet, I have no idea how to connect them.</div> <div> </div> <div>Neighbour influence - These should be obvious, as in Alor (An), </div> <div>where 10 is kartow. It's isolated and surrounded by non-An </div> <div>languages of the Trans New Guinea phylum where 10 is karnok or </div> <div>karnuku, which means, basically, kar-1.(And what does kar mean?) </div> <div> </div>
<div>In Alor kartow is kar-tohu (tohu=1). </div> <div> </div> <div>This leads through to a host of local SE Maluku/Timorese </div> <div>languages, where 10 is hutu, hutusa, futusa, futtota, etc.</div> <div> </div> <div>Mostly, though, it seems that An number morphemes leak into the </div> <div>local non-An languages. But I will be checking on each and every </div> <div>one.</div> <div> </div> <div>Substrates - There were replaced substrate languages wherever An </div> <div>spread, but the only remaining clues to what they were lie in </div> <div>their existing non-An neighbour languages, or in hypothetical </div> <div>non-An 'relicts' in certain languages. So I'm checking </div> <div>every single neighbour non-An language, because, if one of them went</div> <div>off to talk Austronesian, he might have left his uncles and aunties</div> <div>behind, talking 'the Old Stuff'.</div> <div> </div> <div>Karl Anderbeck has just found the
only remaining (equivalent, at the </div> <div>very least, to proto-MP) substrate language in the west ISEA (south of </div> <div>Sumatra, and not connected to Austro-Asiatic in the Malay </div> <div>Peninsula) - Enggano.</div> <div> </div> <div>The Enggano number system is:</div> <div>Enggano - kehei, ?eru, akir, aop, ariyb, ariyb he kahai?, abai </div> <div>kahai?, apa? yop, akira kin keak, kipaao? </div> <div> </div> <div>This has a clear number structure of:<BR>1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5-1 (6), then:</div> <div>'something a bit different' - 1 (7), </div> <div>'apa -4' (8) </div> <div>3-x-y (9) </div> <div>and 10 looks to me something like '1st-double-hand' </div> <div> </div> <div>Doesn't this numbering structure have a little resemblance to the </div> <div>Saisyat/Favorlang or Ende/Lio/Ngada numbering systems?</div> <div> </div> <div>The Enggano ariyb (5) very obviously has some connection to the </div> <div>Taiwan: Pazeh, Saisiyat and
Favorlang: xaseb, aseb and achab (5). </div> <div> </div> <div>kipaao? - Pa'a means 'thigh' here in Siargao, but still means </div> <div>hand in most of Micronesia, and 5 in Tahiti. "Next-hand finish?"</div> <div> </div> <div>Obviously, judging from the above, I'm speculating a great deal, but not without some reason. </div> <div> </div> <div>Perhaps I should just get on with it, and shut up until I've got </div> <div>something conclusive to report.</div> <div> </div> <div>But I really do need all the help I can get, so I ask for your patience.</div> <div> </div> <div>regards</div> <div>Richard Parker<BR>Siargao Island, The Philippines. </div> <div>My website at <A href="http://www.coconutstudio.com">www.coconutstudio.com</A> is about the island and its people, coastal early humans, fishing, coconuts, bananas and whatever took my fancy at the time.</div> <div> </div>