<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.5);"><b></b></span></div></blockquote>Posted on behalf of Olesya, who is not subscribed to the list. mm</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.5);"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Olesya Khanina <<a href="mailto:khanina@eva.mpg.de">khanina@eva.mpg.de</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.5);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">28 May 2009 14:13:15 BST<br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.5);"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><a href="mailto:papuanlanguages@anu.edu.au">papuanlanguages@anu.edu.au</a>, <a href="mailto:wp.lawrence@auckland.ac.nz">wp.lawrence@auckland.ac.nz</a>, <a href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.5);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Fwd: [An-lang] [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT</b><br></span></div><br><br>Hi there,<br><br>I was forwarded your messages from Miriam Meyerhoff.<br>Yes, it was me who contacted Andy some time ago, and I was indeed interested in the history of 'want'-expressions in Central Pacific. From historical point of view, I also had a look at Turkic, so for these two families I have a list of possible etymologies for 'want'-expressions.<br>Otherwise my research has been synchronic, i.e. I've looked at various properties of 'want' in several dozens of languages, including other meanings the 'want'-staff could have. These results were summarized in my 2008 paper in Studies in language 32:4, entitled 'How universal is wanting?'<br>The results for Central Pacific and Turkic are still awaiting the publication, but I can share the manuscripts with Wayne (unfortunately, this is too much data and too much discussion to post this to the list).<br><br>Best regards,<br>Olesya<br><br>-- <br>****************************************************************<br>Olesya Khanina (PhD)<br>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<br>Department of Linguistics<br>Deutscher Platz 6 phone: +49 (0) 341 35 50 339<br>D-04103 Leipzig fax: +49 (0) 341 35 50 333<br>Germany e-mail: <a href="mailto:khanina@eva.mpg.de">khanina@eva.mpg.de</a><br><a href="http://email.eva.mpg.de/~khanina/">http://email.eva.mpg.de/~khanina/</a><br>****************************************************************<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">*From: *<f.lichtenberk@auckland.ac.nz <mailto:f.lichtenberk@auckland.ac.nz>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">*Date: *28 May 2009 03:06:49 BST<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">*To: *<papuanlanguages@anu.edu.au <mailto:papuanlanguages@anu.edu.au>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">*Cc: *wp.lawrence@auckland.ac.nz <mailto:wp.lawrence@auckland.ac.nz>, an-lang@anu.edu.au <mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">*Subject: **Re: [An-lang] [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT*<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Hilario and Wayne,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I think the person in Germany Andy Pawley has in mind is Olesya Khanina, who was working on a cross-linguistic study of 'want' a few years ago. She was at the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig at the time, and her address was khanina@eva.mpg.de <mailto:khanina@eva.mpg.de>.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Frank Lichtenberk<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: papuanlanguages-bounces@anu.edu.au [mailto:papuanlanguages-bounces@anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Andrew Pawley<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 1:37 p.m.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To: Papuan languages discussion list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Cc: an-lang@anu.edu.au <mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au>; Wayne Lawrence (ARTS ASI); papuanlanguages@anu.edu.au <mailto:papuanlanguages@anu.edu.au><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Dear Hilario and Wayne<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There are probably many other comparative sources but I suggest you start with a look at Cliff Goddard and Anna Wierzbicka (eds), 1994. Semantic and Lexical Universals, 387-421. Benjamins: Amsterdam. This has essays on various languages that describe how 'want' and the editors' 50 or so other putative universals are expressed. <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">In the Papuan (Trans New Guinea family) language I know best, Kalam, 'X wants something' is expressed literally as 'X says "I get something!" ', or X says 'we get something!", using the hortative of the verb d- 'get, have, control, etc.' (where an alternative literal translation for 'I get something' might also be 'let me get something'. That is, in Kalam someone's thought processes are expressed as internal quoted speech, and wanting is viewed as a thought process. My paper in that volume is "Kalam exponents of lexico-semantic primitives." I think this mode of expressing want is widespread among Papuan languages of New Guinea.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">A few years ago a PhD student in Germany wrote to me saying she was looking at the origins of 'want' expressions in Fijian and Polynesian languages, maybe just at the history of the peverbal desiderative particle Fijian via, PPn *fia. Unfortunately I forget her affiliation, maybe it was at one of the MPIs. I have the impression that in Oceanic languages, as in Tok Pisin, desiderative 'want' is likely to be expressed by, or come from a verb of liking. Not surprising, but kind of boring for a typologist looking for extreme sourrces.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Andy<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">----- Original Message -----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: Hilario De Sousa <hilario.desousa@usyd.edu.au <mailto:hilario.desousa@usyd.edu.au>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:00 am<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To: papuanlanguages@anu.edu.au <mailto:papuanlanguages@anu.edu.au>, an-lang@anu.edu.au <mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Cc: wp.lawrence@auckland.ac.nz <mailto:wp.lawrence@auckland.ac.nz><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">*sorry for cross-posting*<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Dear Austronesianists/Papuanists,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Wayne Lawrence (wp.lawrence@auckland.ac.nz <mailto:wp.lawrence@auckland.ac.nz>) is looking into the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">grammaticalisatin of 'desideratives' (both lexical and grammatical). For instance, English «want» is grammaticalised from an original<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">meaning of 'lack'. An interesting case is the Japanese verbal suffix<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">«-tai», which is said to come from «itai» 'sore, hurts', via<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">'extremely'<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(the earliest instances of -itai, in the late Heian period, have the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">interpretation of 'very'. The path SORE --> EXTREMELY is also found<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">in German «sehr» 'very', c.f. English «sore»). Do you know of any<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">other examples of EXTREMELY --<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">WANT? The etymology of WANT in other languages would also be hugely<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">appreciated.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hilário de Sousa on behalf of Wayne Lawrence<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">PapuanLanguages mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">PapuanLanguages@anu.edu.au <mailto:PapuanLanguages@anu.edu.au><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/papuanlanguages<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">PapuanLanguages mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">PapuanLanguages@anu.edu.au <mailto:PapuanLanguages@anu.edu.au><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/papuanlanguages<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">An-lang mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">An-lang@anu.edu.au<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>