<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Agreed. Very much part of Kiwi English and is not derogatory at all.<br><br>Australians sometimes jokingly refer to NZ now as 'Cuzzy-Bro-Land' such is the predominance of 'cuz' and 'bro' in Kiwi English.<br><br>Watch the TV series, 'bro'Town'.<br><br>Tavita<br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Simon Greenhill <s.greenhill@auckland.ac.nz><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "an-lang@anu.edu.au" <an-lang@anu.edu.au>; Bill and Donna Davis <bill-donna_davis@ntm.org><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sat, 23 January, 2010
8:18:30 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [An-lang] NZ usage of "bro"<br></font><br>Kia ora,<br><br>As a young(-ish) NZ male, I can confirm that "bro" is quite common. <br><br>It is used in the same way Australians use "mate" by mainly lower-class young males (both Maori/Polynesian and NZ Europeans). It is seen by other subgroups as a very lower-class speech pattern. This groups use of it is not derogative or racist. However, 'bro' is often seen as a marker of "kiwi-english" and is mocked as such (particularly by Australians), but this is probably not intended as racist.<br><br>This video here is a nice example of how Australians view NZ-English usage of bro:<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdVHZwI8pcA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdVHZwI8pcA</a><br><br>Simon<br><br>On 22/01/2010, at 3:10 PM, Bill and Donna Davis wrote:<br><br>> Wolfgang and all..<br>> <br>> It would be
interesting to get more documentation of that use of<br>> English "bro" you have heard in NZ. It is used elsewhere? Is this an<br>> emerging sense which is different from the more widely-known usage or<br>> casual intimacy? Is it restricted at all (e.g. age-related or<br>> regional)? Is it specifically racist in some way? I also wonder if the<br>> word "bro" itself is derogatory even in that situation or is the<br>> negatively more in the implicit attitude of the speaker? For example,<br>> someone might make the same statement about the homeless in Los<br>> Angeles, saying, "Look at those dudes," but the word "dude" would not<br>> necessarily be derogatory.<br>> <br>> -Bill<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> On Jan 22, 2010, at 9:00 AM, <a ymailto="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</a> wrote:<br>> <br>>> Send An-lang mailing list
submissions to<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a><br>>> <br>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>>> <a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang" target="_blank">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a><br>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</a><br>>> <br>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au">an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au</a><br>>> <br>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>>> than "Re: Contents of An-lang
digest..."<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> Today's Topics:<br>>> <br>>> 1. Re: connotation of English "bro" (Wolfgang Sperlich)<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>> <br>>> Message: 1<br>>> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:57:34 +0000<br>>> From: Wolfgang Sperlich <<a ymailto="mailto:wsperlich@hotmail.com" href="mailto:wsperlich@hotmail.com">wsperlich@hotmail.com</a>><br>>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] connotation of English "bro"<br>>> To: <<a ymailto="mailto:bill-donna_davis@ntm.org" href="mailto:bill-donna_davis@ntm.org">bill-donna_davis@ntm.org</a>>, <<a ymailto="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a>><br>>> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:BAY112-W123685BEFBC071C1F2B913A2630@phx.gbl"
href="mailto:BAY112-W123685BEFBC071C1F2B913A2630@phx.gbl">BAY112-W123685BEFBC071C1F2B913A2630@phx.gbl</a>><br>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> Greetings to all yo bros out there<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> Never has a saying been more true in this context than Firth's "you<br>>> know a word by the company it keeps". On my way to work I pass a<br>>> City Mission (in Auckland, NZ) where homeless people congregate, and<br>>> on more than one ocasion I have heard the highly respectable passers-<br>>> by say "look at those bros" - definitely in a derogatory manner. QED.<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> Wolfgang Sperlich<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>>> From: <a ymailto="mailto:bill-donna_davis@ntm.org"
href="mailto:bill-donna_davis@ntm.org">bill-donna_davis@ntm.org</a><br>>>> To: <a ymailto="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a><br>>>> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:55:03 +0800<br>>>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] connotation of English "bro"<br>>>> <br>>>> Greetings all,<br>>>> <br>>>> Waruno,<br>>>> <br>>>> I question the idea of _bro_ in English being either derogatory or<br>>>> mening "white trash male." I have never heard it used in either of<br>>>> those ways, but rather it is used extensively among males of a<br>>>> certain<br>>>> generation (mine, in fact... i.e. baby boomers, I am 54). It is very<br>>>> much analogous to Australian "mate." It shows a casual intimacy, and<br>>>> it not derogatory at all. The younger generations, such as my<br>>>> daughters and their
peers, tend to prefer _dude_ (which<br>>>> interestingly,<br>>>> is now gender NON-specific! my son-in-law calls my daughter "dude").<br>>>> Others use _bra_ which is cultural imitation of Jamaican/reggae<br>>>> version of _bro_.<br>>>> <br>>>> Also, among the Batak of Palawan island, Philippines, _mistir_ is<br>>>> used<br>>>> as an English borrowing with the sense of "sir."<br>>>> <br>>>> -Bill<br>>>> <br>>>> <br>>>> <br>>>> On Jan 15, 2010, at 9:00 AM, <a ymailto="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</a> wrote:<br>>>> <br>>>>> Send An-lang mailing list submissions to<br>>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a><br>>>>> <br>>>>> To subscribe or
unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>>>>> <a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang" target="_blank">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a><br>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</a><br>>>>> <br>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au">an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au</a><br>>>>> <br>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>>>>> than "Re: Contents of An-lang digest..."<br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>> Today's Topics:<br>>>>> <br>>>>> 1. FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor
(Elizabeth Pearce)<br>>>>> 2. Re: FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor (David Gil)<br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>>>> <br>>>>> Message: 1<br>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:17:43 +1300<br>>>>> From: Elizabeth Pearce <<a ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Pearce@vuw.ac.nz" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Pearce@vuw.ac.nz">Elizabeth.Pearce@vuw.ac.nz</a>><br>>>>> Subject: [An-lang] FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor<br>>>>> To: "<a ymailto="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a>" <<a ymailto="mailto:an-lang@anu...edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a>><br>>>>> Message-ID: <C774F427.F9EA%<a ymailto="mailto:elizabeth.pearce@vuw.ac.nz"
href="mailto:elizabeth.pearce@vuw.ac.nz">elizabeth.pearce@vuw.ac.nz</a>><br>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>>>>> <br>>>>> And bro is used as a term of address among whites as well as among<br>>>>> Maori in New Zealand. (And I imagine in Australia also).<br>>>>> Liz Pearce<br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>> ------ Forwarded Message<br>>>>> From: Waruno Mahdi <<a ymailto="mailto:mahdi@fhi-berlin.mpg.de" href="mailto:mahdi@fhi-berlin.mpg.de">mahdi@fhi-berlin.mpg...de</a>><br>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:48:16 +1300<br>>>>> To: Austronesian languages <<a ymailto="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a>><br>>>>> Conversation: [An-lang] Linguistic Contact in East Timor<br>>>>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] Linguistic Contact in East
Timor<br>>>>> <br>>>>> Thanks David. Yes, this funny use of _mister_ is interesting indeed,<br>>>>> though I haven't heard it yet among Indonesians abroad. The funny<br>>>>> thing about it is, that there had been a Javanese herbal-medicine<br>>>>> (_jamu_) brand since the early 20th century, known as _jamu cap<br>>>>> Nyonya-Meneer_ (lit. 'missus-&-mister brand herbal-medicine').<br>>>>> On the package there was a picture of a Dutch couple, the word<br>>>>> _meneer_ being Dutch (also spelled _mijnheer_) for 'mister'. The<br>>>>> loanword in colloquial Indonesian Malay, _menir_, is/was gender<br>>>>> specific (masculine).<br>>>>> <br>>>>> Also the earlier Portuguese loan _sinyor_ (attested since 17th<br>>>>> cent.)<br>>>>> was gender specific. Both (_sinyor_ and _menir_) were only used
with<br>>>>> regard to white persons. I did not mention either of them earlier,<br>>>>> because they are no longer commonly used in the modern language.<br>>>>> <br>>>>> But the process of borrowing can sometimes have unexpected, or no<br>>>>> longer apparent loopholes. The word _bro_ (short for _brother_)<br>>>>> began to be used some years ago in Malaysia as gender-specific term<br>>>>> of address to a (male) friend. I noticed recently that it has also<br>>>>> started to be used by some young Indonesians.<br>>>>> <br>>>>> In view of the fact, that _bro_ in (American) English has a quite<br>>>>> pronounced derogatory meaning (something like "white-trash male"),<br>>>>> it seems very unlikely that the Malay word was a direct borrowing<br>>>>> from English. I tentatively suspect, therefore, that the
original<br>>>>> precursor was _brother_ as term of address amongst Afro-Americans,<br>>>>> and that Malay _bro_ was shortened from _brother_ in Malay itself,<br>>>>> independently of the shortening to _bro_ in English. Does that<br>>>>> sound likely?<br>>>>> <br>>>>> I forgot to mention in my former input that Malay borrowed a number<br>>>>> of adjectives from Arabic, some with masculine ending (e.g. _hakiki_<br>>>>> 'essential'), some with feminine (_alamiah_ 'natural'), but the<br>>>>> loanwords were/are free of any gender connotation in Malay.<br>>>>> <br>>>>> Aloha,<br>>>>> Waruno<br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>>> Just a footnote to Waruno's excellent summary ...<br>>>>>> <br>>>>>> Any white person who has spent any time in Indonesia will be
more<br>>>>>> than familiar with the recent Indonesian loan from English<br>>>>>> "mister",<br>>>>>> whose denotation is, simply 'white person', and is unmarked not<br>>>>>> just<br>>>>>> for number but also for gender ...<br>>>>>> <br>>>>>> David<br>>>>> <br>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>>> An-lang mailing list<br>>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</a><br>>>>> <a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang" target="_blank">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a><br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message<br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>>
------------------------------<br>>>>> <br>>>>> Message: 2<br>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:26:38 +0700<br>>>>> From: David Gil <<a ymailto="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de" href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de">gil@eva.mpg.de</a>><br>>>>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor<br>>>>> To: "<a ymailto="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a>" <<a ymailto="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a>><br>>>>> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:4B4EAB0E.7000408@eva.mpg.de" href="mailto:4B4EAB0E.7000408@eva.mpg.de">4B4EAB0E.7000408@eva.mpg.de</a>><br>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>>>>> <br>>>>> Waruno Mahdi wrote:<br>>>>>> But the process of borrowing can sometimes have unexpected, or
no<br>>>>>> longer apparent loopholes. The word _bro_ (short for _brother_)<br>>>>>> began to be used some years ago in Malaysia as gender-specific term<br>>>>>> of address to a (male) friend. I noticed recently that it has also<br>>>>>> started to be used by some young Indonesians.<br>>>>>> <br>>>>>> In view of the fact, that _bro_ in (American) English has a quite<br>>>>>> pronounced derogatory meaning (something like "white-trash male"),<br>>>>>> it seems very unlikely that the Malay word was a direct borrowing<br>>>>>> from English. I tentatively suspect, therefore, that the original<br>>>>>> precursor was _brother_ as term of address amongst Afro-Americans,<br>>>>>> and that Malay _bro_ was shortened from _brother_ in Malay itself,<br>>>>>> independently of the shortening
to _bro_ in English. Does that<br>>>>>> sound likely?<br>>>>>> <br>>>>> Well I'm not sure, but here are three reasons to suppose that it was<br>>>>> the<br>>>>> shortened form _bro_ in English that was directly borrowed ...<br>>>>> <br>>>>> (a) In western Nusantara dialects of Malay/Indonesian, truncation<br>>>>> to a<br>>>>> monosyllable usually (if not always) retains the final syllable,<br>>>>> rather<br>>>>> than the penultimate, eg. _abang_ > _bang_, _mister_ > _ster_,<br>>>>> _Dapit_ ><br>>>>> _pit_.<br>>>>> <br>>>>> (b) In eastern Nusantara dialects, eg. Papuan Malay, there is no<br>>>>> productive rule of truncation to monosyllabic forms, eg. _kaka_ ><br>>>>> *_ka_<br>>>>> -- and in fact, in Papuan Malay, _bro_ has
recently become very<br>>>>> widespread.<br>>>>> <br>>>>> (c) In Papua at least, my impression is that people -- mostly trendy<br>>>>> teenagers -- who use _bro_ are also likely to associate with other<br>>>>> artifacts of African-American culture, eg. rap music, shoulder bags<br>>>>> with<br>>>>> rasta colours, etc., which suggests to me that they borrowed the<br>>>>> form<br>>>>> directly from African-American English. (Which is consistent with<br>>>>> other<br>>>>> comments that have been made in recent postings on this subject.)<br>>>>> <br>>>>> David<br>>>>> <br>>>>> --<br>>>>> David Gil<br>>>>> <br>>>>> Department of Linguistics<br>>>>> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<br>>>>> Deutscher Platz
6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany<br>>>>> <br>>>>> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119<br>>>>> Email: <a ymailto="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de" href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de">gil@eva.mpg.de</a><br>>>>> Webpage: <a href="http://www.eva.mpg.de/%7Egil/" target="_blank">http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/</a><br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>> ------------------------------<br>>>>> <br>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>>> An-lang mailing list<br>>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</a><br>>>>> <a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang" target="_blank">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a><br>>>>> <br>>>>> <br>>>>> End of
An-lang Digest, Vol 79, Issue 8<br>>>>> **************************************<br>>>> <br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> An-lang mailing list<br>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</a><br>>>> <a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang" target="_blank">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a><br>>> <br>>> _________________________________________________________________<br>>> Singles online now! Browse profiles for FREE<br>>> <a href="http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/163036679/direct/01/" target="_blank">http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/163036679/direct/01/</a><br>>> -------------- next part --------------<br>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>>> URL: <a
href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/private/an-lang/attachments/20100121/dba98747/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/private/an-lang/attachments/20100121/dba98747/attachment-0001.html</a><br>>> <br>>> ------------------------------<br>>> <br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> An-lang mailing list<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</a><br>>> <a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang" target="_blank">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a><br>>> <br>>> <br>>> End of An-lang Digest, Vol 79, Issue 11<br>>> ***************************************<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> An-lang mailing list<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au"
href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</a><br>> <a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang" target="_blank">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>An-lang mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au" href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</a><br><a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang" target="_blank">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a><br></div></div>
<!-- cg2.c761.mail.aue.yahoo.com compressed/chunked Tue Jan 12 23:53:40 PST 2010 -->
</div></body></html>