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Greetings to cuzzy-bros<BR>
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My assertion was that 'bro' CAN be used in a derogatory manner (as overheard), just like derogatory terms like 'twit' CAN be used as terms of endearment. When dealing with sociolects one should avoid dogmatic statements. Never say never. Encoding and decoding meaning CAN be a highly idiosyncratic process.<BR><BR><BR>
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<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#006633 face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">Wolfgang Sperlich</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:32:31 -0800<BR>From: dborland@xtra.co.nz<BR>To: s.greenhill@auckland.ac.nz; an-lang@anu.edu.au; bill-donna_davis@ntm.org<BR>Subject: Re: [An-lang] NZ usage of "bro"<BR><BR>
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<DIV>Agreed. Very much part of Kiwi English and is not derogatory at all.<BR><BR>Australians sometimes jokingly refer to NZ now as 'Cuzzy-Bro-Land' such is the predominance of 'cuz' and 'bro' in Kiwi English.<BR><BR>Watch the TV series, 'bro'Town'.<BR><BR>Tavita<BR></DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Simon Greenhill <s.greenhill@auckland.ac.nz><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> "an-lang@anu.edu.au" <an-lang@anu.edu.au>; Bill and Donna Davis <bill-donna_davis@ntm.org><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sat, 23 January, 2010 8:18:30 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [An-lang] NZ usage of "bro"<BR></FONT><BR>Kia ora,<BR><BR>As a young(-ish) NZ male, I can confirm that "bro" is quite common. <BR><BR>It is used in the same way Australians use "mate" by mainly lower-class young males (both Maori/Polynesian and NZ Europeans). It is seen by other subgroups as a very lower-class speech pattern. This groups use of it is not derogative or racist. However, 'bro' is often seen as a marker of "kiwi-english" and is mocked as such (particularly by Australians), but this is probably not intended as racist.<BR><BR>This video here is a nice example of how Australians view NZ-English usage of bro:<BR><BR><A href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdVHZwI8pcA">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdVHZwI8pcA</A><BR><BR>Simon<BR><BR>On 22/01/2010, at 3:10 PM, Bill and Donna Davis wrote:<BR><BR>> Wolfgang and all..<BR>> <BR>> It would be interesting to get more documentation of that use of<BR>> English "bro" you have heard in NZ. It is used elsewhere? Is this an<BR>> emerging sense which is different from the more widely-known usage or<BR>> casual intimacy? Is it restricted at all (e.g. age-related or<BR>> regional)? Is it specifically racist in some way? I also wonder if the<BR>> word "bro" itself is derogatory even in that situation or is the<BR>> negatively more in the implicit attitude of the speaker? For example,<BR>> someone might make the same statement about the homeless in Los<BR>> Angeles, saying, "Look at those dudes," but the word "dude" would not<BR>> necessarily be derogatory.<BR>> <BR>> -Bill<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Jan 22, 2010, at 9:00 AM, <A href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</A> wrote:<BR>> <BR>>> Send An-lang mailing list submissions to<BR>>> <A href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</A><BR>>> <BR>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>>> <A href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</A><BR>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>>> <A href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</A><BR>>> <BR>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>>> <A href="mailto:an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au">an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au</A><BR>>> <BR>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>>> than "Re: Contents of An-lang digest..."<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> Today's Topics:<BR>>> <BR>>> 1. Re: connotation of English "bro" (Wolfgang Sperlich)<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>> <BR>>> Message: 1<BR>>> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:57:34 +0000<BR>>> From: Wolfgang Sperlich <<A href="mailto:wsperlich@hotmail.com">wsperlich@hotmail.com</A>><BR>>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] connotation of English "bro"<BR>>> To: <<A href="mailto:bill-donna_davis@ntm.org">bill-donna_davis@ntm.org</A>>, <<A href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</A>><BR>>> Message-ID: <<A href="mailto:BAY112-W123685BEFBC071C1F2B913A2630@phx.gbl">BAY112-W123685BEFBC071C1F2B913A2630@phx.gbl</A>><BR>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> Greetings to all yo bros out there<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> Never has a saying been more true in this context than Firth's "you<BR>>> know a word by the company it keeps". On my way to work I pass a<BR>>> City Mission (in Auckland, NZ) where homeless people congregate, and<BR>>> on more than one ocasion I have heard the highly respectable passers-<BR>>> by say "look at those bros" - definitely in a derogatory manner. QED.<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> Wolfgang Sperlich<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>> From: <A href="mailto:bill-donna_davis@ntm.org">bill-donna_davis@ntm.org</A><BR>>>> To: <A href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</A><BR>>>> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:55:03 +0800<BR>>>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] connotation of English "bro"<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Greetings all,<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Waruno,<BR>>>> <BR>>>> I question the idea of _bro_ in English being either derogatory or<BR>>>> mening "white trash male." I have never heard it used in either of<BR>>>> those ways, but rather it is used extensively among males of a<BR>>>> certain<BR>>>> generation (mine, in fact... i.e. baby boomers, I am 54). It is very<BR>>>> much analogous to Australian "mate." It shows a casual intimacy, and<BR>>>> it not derogatory at all. The younger generations, such as my<BR>>>> daughters and their peers, tend to prefer _dude_ (which<BR>>>> interestingly,<BR>>>> is now gender NON-specific! my son-in-law calls my daughter "dude").<BR>>>> Others use _bra_ which is cultural imitation of Jamaican/reggae<BR>>>> version of _bro_.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Also, among the Batak of Palawan island, Philippines, _mistir_ is<BR>>>> used<BR>>>> as an English borrowing with the sense of "sir."<BR>>>> <BR>>>> -Bill<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> On Jan 15, 2010, at 9:00 AM, <A href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</A> wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>>> Send An-lang mailing list submissions to<BR>>>>> <A href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</A><BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>>>>> <A href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</A><BR>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>>>>> <A href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</A><BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>>>>> <A href="mailto:an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au">an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au</A><BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>>>>> than "Re: Contents of An-lang digest..."<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Today's Topics:<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> 1. FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor (Elizabeth Pearce)<BR>>>>> 2. Re: FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor (David Gil)<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Message: 1<BR>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:17:43 +1300<BR>>>>> From: Elizabeth Pearce <<A href="mailto:Elizabeth.Pearce@vuw.ac.nz">Elizabeth.Pearce@vuw.ac.nz</A>><BR>>>>> Subject: [An-lang] FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor<BR>>>>> To: "<A href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</A>" <<A href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</A>><BR>>>>> Message-ID: <C774F427.F9EA%<A href="mailto:elizabeth.pearce@vuw.ac.nz">elizabeth.pearce@vuw.ac.nz</A>><BR>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> And bro is used as a term of address among whites as well as among<BR>>>>> Maori in New Zealand. (And I imagine in Australia also).<BR>>>>> Liz Pearce<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> ------ Forwarded Message<BR>>>>> From: Waruno Mahdi <<A href="mailto:mahdi@fhi-berlin.mpg.de">mahdi@fhi-berlin.mpg...de</A>><BR>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:48:16 +1300<BR>>>>> To: Austronesian languages <<A href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</A>><BR>>>>> Conversation: [An-lang] Linguistic Contact in East Timor<BR>>>>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] Linguistic Contact in East Timor<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Thanks David. Yes, this funny use of _mister_ is interesting indeed,<BR>>>>> though I haven't heard it yet among Indonesians abroad. The funny<BR>>>>> thing about it is, that there had been a Javanese herbal-medicine<BR>>>>> (_jamu_) brand since the early 20th century, known as _jamu cap<BR>>>>> Nyonya-Meneer_ (lit. 'missus-&-mister brand herbal-medicine').<BR>>>>> On the package there was a picture of a Dutch couple, the word<BR>>>>> _meneer_ being Dutch (also spelled _mijnheer_) for 'mister'. The<BR>>>>> loanword in colloquial Indonesian Malay, _menir_, is/was gender<BR>>>>> specific (masculine).<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Also the earlier Portuguese loan _sinyor_ (attested since 17th<BR>>>>> cent.)<BR>>>>> was gender specific. Both (_sinyor_ and _menir_) were only used with<BR>>>>> regard to white persons. I did not mention either of them earlier,<BR>>>>> because they are no longer commonly used in the modern language.<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> But the process of borrowing can sometimes have unexpected, or no<BR>>>>> longer apparent loopholes. The word _bro_ (short for _brother_)<BR>>>>> began to be used some years ago in Malaysia as gender-specific term<BR>>>>> of address to a (male) friend. I noticed recently that it has also<BR>>>>> started to be used by some young Indonesians.<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> In view of the fact, that _bro_ in (American) English has a quite<BR>>>>> pronounced derogatory meaning (something like "white-trash male"),<BR>>>>> it seems very unlikely that the Malay word was a direct borrowing<BR>>>>> from English. I tentatively suspect, therefore, that the original<BR>>>>> precursor was _brother_ as term of address amongst Afro-Americans,<BR>>>>> and that Malay _bro_ was shortened from _brother_ in Malay itself,<BR>>>>> independently of the shortening to _bro_ in English. Does that<BR>>>>> sound likely?<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> I forgot to mention in my former input that Malay borrowed a number<BR>>>>> of adjectives from Arabic, some with masculine ending (e.g. _hakiki_<BR>>>>> 'essential'), some with feminine (_alamiah_ 'natural'), but the<BR>>>>> loanwords were/are free of any gender connotation in Malay.<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Aloha,<BR>>>>> Waruno<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>>> Just a footnote to Waruno's excellent summary ...<BR>>>>>> <BR>>>>>> Any white person who has spent any time in Indonesia will be more<BR>>>>>> than familiar with the recent Indonesian loan from English<BR>>>>>> "mister",<BR>>>>>> whose denotation is, simply 'white person', and is unmarked not<BR>>>>>> just<BR>>>>>> for number but also for gender ...<BR>>>>>> <BR>>>>>> David<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>>>> An-lang mailing list<BR>>>>> <A href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</A><BR>>>>> <A href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</A><BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> ------------------------------<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Message: 2<BR>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:26:38 +0700<BR>>>>> From: David Gil <<A href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de">gil@eva.mpg.de</A>><BR>>>>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] FW: Linguistic Contact in East Timor<BR>>>>> To: "<A href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</A>" <<A href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</A>><BR>>>>> Message-ID: <<A href="mailto:4B4EAB0E.7000408@eva.mpg.de">4B4EAB0E.7000408@eva.mpg.de</A>><BR>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Waruno Mahdi wrote:<BR>>>>>> But the process of borrowing can sometimes have unexpected, or no<BR>>>>>> longer apparent loopholes. The word _bro_ (short for _brother_)<BR>>>>>> began to be used some years ago in Malaysia as gender-specific term<BR>>>>>> of address to a (male) friend. I noticed recently that it has also<BR>>>>>> started to be used by some young Indonesians.<BR>>>>>> <BR>>>>>> In view of the fact, that _bro_ in (American) English has a quite<BR>>>>>> pronounced derogatory meaning (something like "white-trash male"),<BR>>>>>> it seems very unlikely that the Malay word was a direct borrowing<BR>>>>>> from English. I tentatively suspect, therefore, that the original<BR>>>>>> precursor was _brother_ as term of address amongst Afro-Americans,<BR>>>>>> and that Malay _bro_ was shortened from _brother_ in Malay itself,<BR>>>>>> independently of the shortening to _bro_ in English. Does that<BR>>>>>> sound likely?<BR>>>>>> <BR>>>>> Well I'm not sure, but here are three reasons to suppose that it was<BR>>>>> the<BR>>>>> shortened form _bro_ in English that was directly borrowed ...<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> (a) In western Nusantara dialects of Malay/Indonesian, truncation<BR>>>>> to a<BR>>>>> monosyllable usually (if not always) retains the final syllable,<BR>>>>> rather<BR>>>>> than the penultimate, eg. _abang_ > _bang_, _mister_ > _ster_,<BR>>>>> _Dapit_ ><BR>>>>> _pit_.<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> (b) In eastern Nusantara dialects, eg. Papuan Malay, there is no<BR>>>>> productive rule of truncation to monosyllabic forms, eg. _kaka_ ><BR>>>>> *_ka_<BR>>>>> -- and in fact, in Papuan Malay, _bro_ has recently become very<BR>>>>> widespread.<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> (c) In Papua at least, my impression is that people -- mostly trendy<BR>>>>> teenagers -- who use _bro_ are also likely to associate with other<BR>>>>> artifacts of African-American culture, eg. rap music, shoulder bags<BR>>>>> with<BR>>>>> rasta colours, etc., which suggests to me that they borrowed the<BR>>>>> form<BR>>>>> directly from African-American English. (Which is consistent with<BR>>>>> other<BR>>>>> comments that have been made in recent postings on this subject.)<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> David<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> --<BR>>>>> David Gil<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Department of Linguistics<BR>>>>> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<BR>>>>> Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119<BR>>>>> Email: <A href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de">gil@eva.mpg.de</A><BR>>>>> Webpage: <A href="http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/">http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/</A><BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> ------------------------------<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>>>> An-lang mailing list<BR>>>>> <A href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</A><BR>>>>> <A href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</A><BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> End of An-lang Digest, Vol 79, Issue 8<BR>>>>> **************************************<BR>>>> <BR>>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>>> An-lang mailing list<BR>>>> <A href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</A><BR>>>> <A href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</A><BR>>> <BR>>> _________________________________________________________________<BR>>> Singles online now! 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