<blockquote style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">Davies 1995 mentions that agents of passives in Javanese must be 3rd
person. I'm wondering whether the Javanese situation is like Indonesian,
in which di-passives without overt agents can be interpreted as having
1/2 person agents but 1/2 person pronouns in a by-phrase are not used,
or whether di-passives even with implicit agents are restricted to 3rd
person? (I've already contacted Bill and he suggested I email this
list.)<br></blockquote><div><br>It's not quite true that 1/2 person pronouns in a by-phrase are not used in Indonesian. In current colloquial varieties as well as in classical Malay, by-phrases (with oleh or sama) are used commonly with 1st and 2nd persons. <br>
<br>Siti di-cium sama saya<br>Siti PASS-kiss by 1sg<br>"Siti was kissed by me."<br><br>as well as, <br><br>Siti saya cium<br>Siti 1sg kiss<br>"I kissed Siti"<br><br>Javanese seems to be far stricter in disallowing 1/2 persons in a
by-phrase: <br><br>*Siti di-ambo karo aku<br> Siti PASS-kiss by 1sg<br>
<br>Siti tak-ambo <br>Siti 1sg-kiss<br>
'I kissed Siti'<br><br>As far as implicit agents, on the one hand, the passive doesn't strictly disallow a 1/2 person reading but on the other hand it cannot be used when a 1/2 interpretation is the only plausible reading. If someone is washing dishes, they can be asked the following and the dish washer could be the addressee or a third person (just as in English):<br>
<br>Piring ini sudah di-cuci?<br>plate this already PASS-wash<br>'Has this dish already been washed?'<br><br>On the other hand, in neither Indonesian nor Javanese would it be felicitous to ask,<br><br>#Anak-mu selalu di-cium sebelum kamu pergi?<br>
child-2sg.gen always PASS-kiss before 2 go<br>(OK as, 'Is your child always kissed before you go?')<br><br>Implicit 2nd person agents are however perfectly fine in imperatives in both Indonesian and Javanese:<br>
<br>Anak-mu di-cium dulu! <br>child-2sg PASS-kiss first<br>'Kiss you child first!'<br><br><br>Hope that helps,<br>Dan Kaufman<br></div>