<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><br><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Hi David and all,</span><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I can’t comment on your proposed etymology. And I admit I am not familiar with the meaning “give” for <i class="">kasi.</i> I can see the logic in Uri's explanation where "pity/care about" becomes via metonymy "g</span><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">ive out of pity/caring about."</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">My comments here probably relate more to <i class="">kasi</i> meaning “care/love” (e.g. <i class="">Terima kasi</i>, etc.), and may not be helpful, not hopefully are at least interesting!</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">In SW Palawano (PLV) on southern Palawan in the Philippines, so far south it is practically in Malaysia/Indonesia, we have the following:</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">kasi</i> means “love.” It is a noun, and a verb root (letter e here is schwa-like vowel):</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><i class="">kesien</i> (transitive, so-called object focus, etc.)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">…an adjective (with common <i class="">me</i>- derivational prefix)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">mekasi</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“loving"</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">There is also a derived adjectival form (from CV2 + -en)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><i class="">kekesien</i> “beloved"</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Now “pity/mercy” in Palawano is <i class="">ingasi?</i></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">My theory on this one is that it comes from:</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><i class="">in</i>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>root</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">We have an interesting prefix <i class="">in-</i> which creates various social/interactive/relational stems, sometimes adding the idea of completeness or action. Sometimes it seems to derive a different kind or degree of transitivity.</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">in-</i> assimilates to tbe initial consonant in some cases; other times it creates a portmanteau.</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">It is not a productive affix, but only shows up in in a very limited set of fossilized forms where the (apparent) new stem functions as a verb root. Here are some examples of how it works, plus the <i class="">ingasi </i>(pity/mercy form, which I believe is related to your <i class="">kasi</i> question.)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span id="x-apple-selection:end" class=""></span><i class="">kaan</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="font-style: italic; white-space: pre;"> </span> root: “to eat”</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">kumaan</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“to eat a food"</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">mengaan<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“to eat a meal"</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">menginaan</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“to eat together socially” (my theory: <i class="">meng- + [[in- + kaan]]</i>)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">seod</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>root: “to find out, learn”</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">seuden</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“to find something out”</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">keseudan</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“knowledge"</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">menginseod-seod</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“to ask after someone” (also <i class="">penginseod-seod</i>) (my theory: <i class="">[[in- + seod]] + RT2 distributive</i>)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">poon</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span> root: “stem/trunk, source”</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">impoonan</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“to cut x off at the trunk” (my theory: <i class="">[[in- + poon]] + -an</i>)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">kulit<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span> root: “skin”</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">inkulitan</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“to skin x" (my theory: <i class="">[[in- + kulit]] + -an</i>)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">kasi</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>root: “love”</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">kesien</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“to love”</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">ingasi</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span> stem: “pity/mercy” (my theory: <i class="">[[in- + kasi]]</i>)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i class="">ingesinan</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>“to show pity/mercy upon x” (my theory: <i class="">[[in- + kasi]] + -an</i>)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>(note we have the Agusan Manobo-like a-> schwa shift)</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Back to your theory on <i class="">kasi</i> coming from a complex form, interestingly, perhaps, we also have a root <i class="">asi?</i> which might mean “to take care.” I’ve only heard it in imperative forms like these:</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><i class="">Asi-asi ga!</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="font-style: italic; white-space: pre;"> </span> <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="font-style: italic; white-space: pre;"> </span>“Watch out! / Be careful!"</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><i class="">Asi-asi na diki mededag!</i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span> “Watch out that (you/it) don’t/doesn’t fall!"</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">So might <i class="">kasi</i> come from <i class="">ke- </i>(non-volitional/abilitative/stative) <i class="">+ asi </i>(care for)?</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Hmmmm.</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">-Bill</span></div><br></div><div><br>On Feb 8, 2015, at 5:01 PM, "<a href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>Send An-lang mailing list submissions to</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit</span><br><span> <a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a></span><br><span>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>You can reach the person managing the list at</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au">an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific</span><br><span>than "Re: Contents of An-lang digest..."</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Today's Topics:</span><br><span></span><br><span> 1. Re: An-lang Digest, Vol 137, Issue 1 (Uri Tadmor)</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>----------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 1</span><br><span>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2015 09:04:49 +0000 (UTC)</span><br><span>From: Uri Tadmor <<a href="mailto:uritadmor@yahoo.com">uritadmor@yahoo.com</a>></span><br><span>Subject: Re: [An-lang] An-lang Digest, Vol 137, Issue 1</span><br><span>To: "<a href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a>></span><br><span>Message-ID:</span><br><span> <<a href="mailto:1562521619.871323.1423386289304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com">1562521619.871323.1423386289304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"</span><br><span></span><br><span>Hi David,</span><br><span>The root sih appears with various prefixes in various western Austronesian languages with the meaning 'pity', 'love', 'generous', e.g. in Malay kasih-sayang 'love', kasihan 'pity, poor X!', the compound sumbangsih 'contribution, assistance'; Old Javanese sih/asih 'love, affection, sympathy, generosity'; and modern Javanese sih 'love, favor'.? The missing link to the semantic shift from 'pity' to 'give' in Bazaar Malay can be seen in Onya Darat (a Land Dayak language of western Kalimantan) where the manse (it's a direct cognate, I can explain to you the derivation separately) means 'to give out of pity'.? The prototypical use of manse is giving meat after a hunt to members the community who are too old or weak to participate in a hunt or do not have family members who can participate in a hunt (e.g. widows and orphans).? Loss of the final -h is not unusual in Bazaar Malay (and in fact in Java Malay kasih 'give' retains the -h).? The initial ka- is indeed an affix but I'm not !</span><br><span> sure it can be related to Malay ke 'to' or akan 'about, etc.'.? It is the same ka- or ke- found in the circumfix ka-an/ke-an.</span><br><span>Best,</span><br><span>Uri</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span> From: "<a href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</a>></span><br><span> To: <a href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a> </span><br><span> Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2015 2:00 AM</span><br><span> Subject: An-lang Digest, Vol 137, Issue 1</span><br><span></span><br><span>Send An-lang mailing list submissions to</span><br><span>??? <a href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit</span><br><span>??? <a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a></span><br><span>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to</span><br><span>??? <a href="mailto:an-lang-request@anu.edu.au">an-lang-request@anu.edu.au</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>You can reach the person managing the list at</span><br><span>??? <a href="mailto:an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au">an-lang-owner@anu.edu.au</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific</span><br><span>than "Re: Contents of An-lang digest..."</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Today's Topics:</span><br><span></span><br><span>? 1. etymology of Malayic "kasi" ('give') (David Gil)</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>----------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 1</span><br><span>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 16:13:49 +0900</span><br><span>From: David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de">gil@eva.mpg.de</a>></span><br><span>Subject: [An-lang] etymology of Malayic "kasi" ('give')</span><br><span>To: Austronesian languages <<a href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au">an-lang@anu.edu.au</a>></span><br><span>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:54D5BB2D.5030905@eva.mpg.de">54D5BB2D.5030905@eva.mpg.de</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed</span><br><span></span><br><span>Dear Austronesianists,</span><br><span></span><br><span>I am trying to find an etymology for Malayic "kasi" ('give').? Can </span><br><span>anybody ...</span><br><span></span><br><span>(1) point me to a previously proposed etymology for "kasi"?</span><br><span>(2) suggest possible cognate forms in other (non-Malayic) Austronesian </span><br><span>languages?</span><br><span>(3) offer any other relevant thoughts and suggestions?</span><br><span></span><br><span>So far I have not been able to find anything.? My current thinking is </span><br><span>that "kasi" may be part of a complex of interrelated forms such as </span><br><span>Standard Malay "ke" ('to'), "akan" (future, oblique), and "=kan" </span><br><span>(causative, applicative), but this remains speculative.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Thanks,</span><br><span></span><br><span>David</span><br><span></span><br><span>-- </span><br><span>David Gil</span><br><span></span><br><span>Department of Linguistics</span><br><span>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology</span><br><span>Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany</span><br><span></span><br><span>Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550333</span><br><span>Email:gil@<a href="http://eva.mpg.de">eva.mpg.de</a></span><br><span>Webpage:http://<a href="http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/">www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>An-lang mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</a></span><br><span><a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>End of An-lang Digest, Vol 137, Issue 1</span><br><span>***************************************</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>-------------- next part --------------</span><br><span>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</span><br><span>URL: <a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/private/an-lang/attachments/20150208/a4daafaa/attachment-0001.html">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/private/an-lang/attachments/20150208/a4daafaa/attachment-0001.html</a> </span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>An-lang mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:An-lang@anu.edu.au">An-lang@anu.edu.au</a></span><br><span><a href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang">http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>End of An-lang Digest, Vol 137, Issue 2</span><br><span>***************************************</span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>