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I would say that final <i>h</i>'s (< <i>*-q</i>) in Malay are
just as much a mess as final glottal stops, varying substantially
and often unpredictably from dialect to dialect, and certainly not
limited to grammaticalized forms like causative <i>kasi</i>. In
some dialects, the presence or absence of final <i>h</i> or glottal
stop is conditioned by the intonational or syntactic environment,
with word-final <i>h</i> or glottal stop favoured in phrase-final
environments but disfavoured in phrase-medial environments. Daniel
mentioned Kupang Malay: there the situation is even more complex, as
forms such as <i>kasi</i> may occur in phrase-medial position not
just as <i>kas</i> but also as <i>kays</i>, undergoing metathesis,
presumably under substrate influence from Uab Meto.<br>
<br>
To get back to the 'give' < 'love' etymology: I would thus
consider the putative distinction between forms <i>kasi</i> and <i>kasih</i>
to be largely an artefact of orthographic conventions. For me, the
problems with the etymology were semantic: I say "were", because I
think that Uri and Daniel have provided convincing "bridging"
contexts from languages in Kalimantan and Sulawesi.<br>
<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18/02/2015 03:56, Robert Blust
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:02F2B978306344319602F6CBC3B719F2@BlustPC"
type="cite">David,
<br>
<br>
I'm not talking about "final glottal stops". I'm talking about
<br>
*-q, which regularly became Malay /-h/. You'll notice that it
appears in /kasih/, where we would expect it (from *ka-qasiq ---
see the ACD), but not in /kasi/, which is why I told you when you
first sent your inquiry out that I don't know of a good etymology
for the latter.
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
<br>
Bob
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gil"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de"><gil@eva.mpg.de></a>
<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au"><an-lang@anu.edu.au></a>
<br>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:06 AM
<br>
Subject: Re: [An-lang] etymology of Malayic "kasi" ('give')
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Bob,
<br>
<br>
Final glottal stops within the Malayic family is a huge topic
that I've
<br>
been working on intermittently for many years. But it's such a
mess
<br>
that I would not dare to use it as a diagnostic for etymologies.
<br>
<br>
David
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 17/02/2015 07:00, Robert Blust wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Hi again David,
<br>
<br>
So you must be assuming that /kasi/ was borrowed back into
Malay from a
<br>
language that regularly lost *-q. If so, what is the likely
source?
<br>
<br>
For the etymology of Malay /kasih/ see PMP *qasiq and its
subentry *ka-qasiq
<br>
in the freely accessible ACD (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.trussel2.com/ACD">www.trussel2.com/ACD</a>).
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
<br>
Bob Blust
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----
<br>
From: "David Gil" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de"><gil@eva.mpg.de></a>
<br>
To: "Austronesian languages" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:an-lang@anu.edu.au"><an-lang@anu.edu.au></a>
<br>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 8:24 PM
<br>
Subject: Re: [An-lang] etymology of Malayic "kasi" ('give')
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear all,
<br>
<br>
Many thanks for all of your suggestions, either to me
personally or to
<br>
the list. In fact, there was unanimity that the source of
Malayic
<br>
"kasi" ('give') is in a similar word for 'love' or
'compassion'. At
<br>
first I was not too convinced; it felt a little bit too much
like a folk
<br>
etymology. However, some of the later comments, with data
from a wider
<br>
range of languages such as Onya Darat (Land Dayak, thanks to
Uri Tadmor)
<br>
and Tae' (Torajan, thanks to Daniel Kaufman), provided
evidence that
<br>
this is most probably the correct etymology.
<br>
<br>
Again, thanks to you all for your comments,
<br>
<br>
David
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/02/2015 16:13, David Gil wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear Austronesianists,
<br>
<br>
I am trying to find an etymology for Malayic "kasi"
('give'). Can
<br>
anybody ...
<br>
<br>
(1) point me to a previously proposed etymology for
"kasi"?
<br>
(2) suggest possible cognate forms in other (non-Malayic)
Austronesian
<br>
languages?
<br>
(3) offer any other relevant thoughts and suggestions?
<br>
<br>
So far I have not been able to find anything. My current
thinking is
<br>
that "kasi" may be part of a complex of interrelated forms
such as
<br>
Standard Malay "ke" ('to'), "akan" (future, oblique), and
"=kan"
<br>
(causative, applicative), but this remains speculative.
<br>
<br>
Thanks,
<br>
<br>
David
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
-- <br>
David Gil
<br>
<br>
Department of Linguistics
<br>
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
<br>
Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
<br>
<br>
Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550333
<br>
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de">gil@eva.mpg.de</a>
<br>
Webpage: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/">http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/</a>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
-- <br>
David Gil
<br>
<br>
Department of Linguistics
<br>
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
<br>
Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
<br>
<br>
Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550333
<br>
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de">gil@eva.mpg.de</a>
<br>
Webpage: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/">http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/</a>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistics
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550333
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de">gil@eva.mpg.de</a>
Webpage: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/">http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/</a>
</pre>
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