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Dear Christoph,</div>
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<div>Chapter 12 of my Ambel grammar goes into quite a bit of detail on demonstratives. There isn’t an ‘out-of-sight’ demonstrative, but you might be interested in the uses of andative
<i>hana</i>. Roughly speaking, <i>hana</i> refers to entities moving away from the speaker, either spatially, or temporally (e.g.
<i>máni wa-hana</i> ‘the bird from earlier’). More often than not, the entities referred to with
<i>hana</i> are not in the immediate field of vision of the speaker – which gives the impression of an ‘out-of-sight’ function. </div>
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<div>Grammar is here: <a href="https://laura-arnold.org/documents/Arnold_2018_AGrammarOfAmbel.pdf" id="LPlnk744117">https://laura-arnold.org/documents/Arnold_2018_AGrammarOfAmbel.pdf</a></div>
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<div>All the best,</div>
Laura<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> An-lang <an-lang-bounces@anu.edu.au> on behalf of Joshua and Amy <josh.ruthamy@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 February 2021 01:49<br>
<b>To:</b> Christoph Holz <christoph.holz@my.jcu.edu.au><br>
<b>Cc:</b> an-lang@anu.edu.au <an-lang@anu.edu.au><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [An-lang] 'Visible' and 'invisible' demonstratives</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Jarai (Austronesian), like other Chamic languages, has a three-way proximal-medial-distal distinction. The distal has sometimes been described as "out of sight," which I simply accepted when I began my study. As I've learned the language, however,
I've realized that the distal is the demonstrative used for the "other side" of something (the road, a river), and the demonstrative used in situations where someone is going "somewhere else." "Somewhere else" and "the other side" are indeed often out of sight,
but not necessarily. The "out of sightness" is accidental, not a component of the meaning (in my view). So I would recommend that you do some testing before accepting lexical entries at face value.
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<div>(Another Chamic language, Roglai I believe, has a proximal -- distal-definite -- distal-indefinite distinction (as described briefly by Ernie Lee), which could also appear to encode out-of-sightness but in fact probably does not.)<br>
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<div>Josh<br clear="all">
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<div dir="ltr"><font color="#666666" size="1">Joshua & RuthAmy Jensen</font>
<div><font color="#666666" size="1">Ratanakiri, Cambodia</font></div>
<div><font color="#666666" size="1">088-957-1791 (in Cambodia)</font><br>
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<div><font color="#666666" size="1">817-522-4383 (US number, also rings in Cambodia)</font></div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 8:24 PM Christoph Holz <<a href="mailto:christoph.holz@my.jcu.edu.au">christoph.holz@my.jcu.edu.au</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">Dear all,<u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">I am working on a paper about the discourse functions of ‘visible’ and ‘invisible’ demonstratives, with a focus on Tiang (a Meso Melanesian language
from New Ireland, PNG, which I am doing fieldwork on).<u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">Are you aware of other languages with a ‘visible’/‘invisible’ distinction in demonstratives, and whether ‘visible’ and ‘invisible’ demonstratives
differ in their discourse functions? I am interested in which demonstratives can act as anaphors and/or cataphors, and whether certain demonstratives are more frequent in a certain function. Most grammars do not really talk about this… Information on any language
(Austronesian, Papuan, other language families) would be a great help.<u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">Kind regards,<u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">Christoph<u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">Christoph Holz<u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">PhD Candidate<u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">James Cook University<u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cairns, Australia</span><br>
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