Arabic-L:LING:li vs. 3ind

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Mon 04 Feb 2002
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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1) Subject:li vs. 3ind

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1)
Date:  04 Feb 2002
From:mughazy <mughazy at students.uiuc.edu>
Subject:li vs. 3ind

I would agree with Waheed that the differences between ‘ma3a’, ‘li’, and
‘3inda’ are very complicated issues, but for now we can apply the 
following
generalizations to Standard Arabic.

‘li’ (actually it is just the /l/) expresses inalienable possessions 
i.e.,
things that are either inherent or can not be easily dissociated or 
disowned
such as body parts, family members, close friends, etc.
use ‘li’ for (I have a brother, a beard, good memories, wishes, a good 
friend,
black eyes, etc.)

‘3inda’ expresses alienable possessions, i.e., things that can be easily
dissociated such as artifacts, money, etc.
Use ‘3inda’ for (I have some money, a book, a headache, appointment, a 
problem
etc.)

‘ma3a’ expresses temporary possession similar to the English ‘I have it 
with
me/on me’.
Use ‘ma3a’ for (I have a dollar, my homework, your phone number etc.)


Things to watch out for
-If you own a book and have it at home use ‘3indi’, but if you have with 
you
at speech time, use ‘ma3i'
-The interpretation of possession is subject to pragmatic factors and
intensionality. For example, the choice between ‘li’ or ‘3indi’ in 
reference
to a friend, a servant, house, or a spouse (among many other traps) has
logical entailments about how you view your relationship to these. In 
other
words, ‘li zawja Amriikiyya’ (I have an American wife) has positive
connotations, but ‘3indi zawja’ implicates a negative possessive 
relationship
and presupposes having other wives.
-There are many unclear cases. For example, you say ‘3indi fikra’ (I 
have an
idea) and ‘3indi su?aal’ (I have a question), but ‘li ra?i' (I have an
opinion).
-There are many cases where the owned item is undefined in terms of
alienability and inalienabilty. For example, if you have a palm tree in 
your
back yard, the choice between ‘3indi’ or ‘li’? is a question that is 
open to
research.
-These generalizations do not work for Colloquial Arabic dialects 
because they
have different patterns.

Hope this helps

Mustafa A. Mughazy

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End of Arabic-L:  04 Feb 2002