Arabic-L:LING:more on Doubled consonants in Transliteration

[Dilworth Parkinson]

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Mon 18 Mar 2002
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message to listserv at byu.edu with first line 
reading:
           unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory-------------------------------------

1) Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration:Summary
2) Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration
3) Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration
4) Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration
5) Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration
6) Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration
7) Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration

-------------------------Messages--------------------------------------
1)
Date:  18 Mar 2002
From:Martha Schulte-Nafeh <marthas at u.arizona.edu>
Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration

Hi there,
I thought, in case anyone else was  curious, that I would post a 
message summarizing the responses to the question of why proper names in 
Arabic are sometimes spelled with a doubled consonant although there is 
no geminate in Arabic.
The two explanantions I got both seem very reasonable and have to do 
with getting the name to be pronounced by an English speaker as closely 
as possible to the Arabic pronunciation.
So, in a name like Yasser. Spelling it with two "s"es makes the vowel in 
the first syllable a short one rather than a dipthong pronunciation 
which you might get with only one "s". Also the doubled 's' prevents the 
consonant sound from becoming voiced. (With only one "s" then Yaser 
might rhyme with laser)
I guess that also explains the variations in spelling. Depending on what 
language community the person has in mind as being the ultimate readers 
of a particular name, different decisions would be made regarding how 
best to get those speakers to pronounce the name as it is pronounced in 
Arabic.
 
Peace,
martha

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
Date:  18 Mar 2002
From:Michel Naggar <mnaggar at sympatico.ca>
Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration

It is, I believe, because of convenience and the multiplicity of 
conventions for transliteration.. and the use of none!
For example: If we had written Yasser with one S, then one might read it 
Yazer.
Take Bassel. beh alif sin lam. Basil would not do.
Bassili: beh alif sin lam yeh . Basili would not render the name, but 
would be Bazili. But the alif has nothing to do. It is rather the 
pronunciation in the Europen language that seems to dictate this 
precaution, and I would image the transliteration would be adapted to 
the target language.
 
I hope this clarifies the question.
M.A. Naggar
Montreal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)
Date:  18 Mar 2002
From:Baida Putris <bputris at arabee.info>
Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration

This has to do with personal preference in spelling as well as with 
regional variations in pronunciation of some names. So, the name Yasser 
is not always spelled with double s. The Modern Standard Arabic 
pronunciation of the name is with one s. Another example of the same 
kind is the name Yousef, sometimes spelled Youssef.
 
I hope this helps.
Baida Putris

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
4)
Date:  18 Mar 2002
From:jolandaguardi <jolandaguardi at iol.it>
Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration

I think is a problem of the english language to let the sin 
pronunced correctly instead of  pronounce it as z (za') as it occurs if 
you write s only once.
jolanda guardi
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
5)
Date:  18 Mar 2002
From:John Makhoul <makhoul at bbn.com>
Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration

Here is a guess as to why Yasser is spelled with two 's' rather than
one.  With a spelling such as Yaser with one 's', the pronunciation then
becomes ambiguous, with the first 'a' pronounced as in the word
'laser'.  With two 's', that ambiguity goes away.

John Makhoul

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
6)
Date:  18 Mar 2002
From:Jackie Murgida <jmurg at star.net>
Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration

This is not based on any research, just my opinion based on observing 
how Arabic is transliterated/romanized. I think that when French or 
English speakers write Arabic words they try to reflect the 
pronunciation of certain consonants with the doubled consonant, and also 
the vowel quality. So ss could be to make sure one doesn't say Huzayn 
instead of Husayn. And you might have Mallik, rather than Malik, to show 
that it's not Maleek.
 
In names like Yaasir and NaaSir, I think it might be the s/z thing. But 
if I'm correct, I wish Husni were spelled Hussni, so Americans would 
stop saying Howzni Mubarak.
 
Best regards,
Jackie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
7)
Date:  18 Mar 2002
From:Dale Frakes <dfrakes at egr.up.edu>
Subject:Doubled consonants in Transliteration

In this example of "Yasser Arafat", could it be to accomodate English?  I
think when you have vowell+consonant+"e", you usually end up getting the
"long" sound of the vowell.  To get the short vowell, you put two of the
same consonant.  Consider "later" and "latter".  Spelling "Yasser" with
one "s"  would give an English speaking person the sound "yay-sir".

This is just a guess, and I suppose I have answered a question with a
question.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Arabic-L:  18 Mar 2002
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 7213 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/arabic-l/attachments/20020318/52da4949/attachment-0001.bin>