Arabic-L:LING:januub vs. januubiyy responses

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Wed 20 Dec 2006
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response
2) Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response
3) Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response
4) Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response
5) Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response
6) Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response
7) Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response

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1)
Date: 20 Dec 2006
From:shehade at mappi.helsinki.fi
Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response

It seems to me that there is no semantic difference between januub  
Baghdad
and januubiyy Baghdad, both mean in the South of Baghdad while ila
aljannub min etc. means outside Baghdad etc.
H. Shehadeh

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2)
Date: 20 Dec 2006
From:"Waheed Samy" <wasamy at umich.edu>
Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response

I know what you mean Dil.  Alas, on the basis of actual usage I don't  
think
that there is a clear distinction.

One would like to say the following:
Januub Baghdad:  south of Baghdad (outside of Baghdad)
Januubiyy Baghdad: the southern part of Baghdad

But it's not possible to substantiate that kind of difference on the  
basis
of available data.

Aside:
Janubiyy is really an adjectival form, and so should not be a first  
term of
idafa.  Only false idafas use adjectival forms in the first  
position.  Thus
one might postulate that historically there was an expression that would
have been equivalent to:
fi al-juz' al-januubiyy min Baghdad,
which over time became januubiyy Baghdad

Waheed

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3)
Date: 20 Dec 2006
From:ghazi958 at yahoo.com
Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response

hello

  januubiyy baghdaad...its meen inside baghdaad but in
the south of it.  januub baghdaad its mean outside of
baghdaad from the sounth....the important thing is
inside and out side.
  Dr.Ghazi Zanahreh

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4)
Date: 20 Dec 2006
From:maabdelw at purdue.edu
Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response

  Hi Dil

  Yes  I think there is  difference between januub and jannubiyy if  
my mind
does not fail me.
  I believe that junnbiyy is included in the city. So januubiyy  
Bahgdad means
in the southern part of Baghdad whereas januub Baghdad means outside  
the city.

  Mohammad

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5)
Date: 20 Dec 2006
From: "Dr. M. Deeb" <muhammaddeeb at gmail.com>
Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response


On the usage of /januub/ vs. /januubiyy/


The incident in Dr. Parkinson’s reading material occurred in the  
south or the southern part of Baghdad), i.e., inside Baghdad.  The  
Arabic structure of the cited news item does not imply the occurrence  
of the incident outside Baghdad, i.e., in a region to the south of  
Baghdad.  It is worth noting that Arabic grammar provides for six  
substitutes of the Zarf, one of which is the adjectival locative.   
Accordingly, /januubiyya/ is an accusative substitute of the maf’uul  
fiihi).  For further illustration, I list below three locative  
expressions used in Arabic:

(1)     the use of a prepositional phrase as locative:

نشبت الحرب في جنوب لبنان.
(Nashibati ‘l-harbu fi januubi Lubnaana.)
=
(War broke out in the south of Lebanon.)


  (2)    the use of an accusative adverbial locative (maf’uul  
fiihi / Zarf):


نشبت الحرب جنوب لبنان.
(Nashibati ‘l-harbu januuba Lubnaana.)
=
War broke out in the south of Lebanon.


  (3)    the use of an adverbial locative in idaafa /genitive   
construction,
(the relative / nisba adjective being the first member of the  
genitive construction):

نشبت الحرب جنوبيً لبنان.
(Nashibati ‘l-harbu januubiyya Lubnaana.)
=
War broke out in the southern part of Lebanon

           The war in the sentences above took place in the Lebanese  
territory inasmuch as the incident cited by Dr. Parkinson occurred in  
Baghdad proper.

           *MD


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6)
Date: 20 Dec 2006
From:Ahmed Al-Laithy via Adil Al-Kufaishi <kuadil at yahoo.com>
Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response

Yes, there is a linguistic difference difference Janub baghdad means  
to the south of Baghdad, Janubiy Baghdad means in the southern parts  
of Bbaghdad.

However, people use both words without mraning to indicate the  
difference. Simply, they do not realise there is any difference,  
especially in the news, and what they mean is in the southern parts  
of Baghdad, not to the south of Baghdad.

I hope this helps.
Ahmed Al-Laithy (PhD)
President of WATA's Board of Directors
www.wataonline. net

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7)
Date: 20 Dec 2006
From:Farzan Zaheed <farzanzaheed at yahoo.com>
Subject:januub vs. januubiyy response

Hi Dil,

I asked my Arabic-educated Amazighi roommate from Morocco your  
question and he couldn't think of anyway januub differs from  
janubayy. The only thing he thought could be a possible reason for  
the differential use of the two were the "way they sound." Anyway we  
did a quick search through the Al-Jazeera archives and found the  
following data. We couldn't see any consistency in the use of one  
versus the other, so we gave up. But anyway, we thought that this  
data might help you. The lines in blue are headlines and the lines in  
black were text from the articles.

Good luck,

Farzan

مقتل قريبين لقاضي محاكمة صدام غربي  
بغداد

عشرات القتلى والمفقودين في فيضانات  
شمال غربي أفغانستان

قتلى وجرحى بالعشرات واشتباكات طائفية  
غربي بغداد

مقتل 13 بمعارك عنيفة وقوات المحاكم  
تتقدم شمال الصومال

اشتباكات بين الناتو ومقاتلي طالبان  
شرق كابل

مصرع 85 بغارة للجيش على مدرسة شمالي  
باكستان

قتيلان بكولومبو واستمرار المعارك  
شمالي شرقي سريلانكا

130 قتيلا وجريحا بهجوم انتحاري للتاميل  
شمالي سريلانكا

ويشهد شمالي سريلانكا وشرقيها معارك  
عنيفة

خمسة قتلى شمالي سريلانكا والحكومة  
تواصل قصف المتمردين

فيلم وثائقي يكشف تدريب إسرائيل لجنود  
أكراد شمال العراق

لقي أربعة عشر شخصا مصرعهم منهم جندي من  
القوات الملكية البريطانية، خلال  
مواجهة مع مسلحين من حركة طالبان في  
ولاية هلمند جنوبي أفغانستان.

وفي حادث آخر، قتلت قوات التحالف أربعة  
أشخاص وفتاة فيما جرحت طفلة خلال  
مداهمة لأحد المنازل في ولاية خوست  
شرقي أفغانستان.

مقتل 14 منهم جندي بريطاني جنوب أفغانستان

خمسة قتلى و28 جريحا في تصادم قطارين  
شمال القاهرة

قتل ما لا يقل عن 67 شخصا بينهم جنود من  
البحرية السريلانكية ومدنيون بهجوم  
انتحاري شمالي شرقي البلاد.

ستة قتلى في تفجير قطار بشمال الهند

اشتباكات بين الناتو ومقاتلي طالبان  
شرق كابل


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