From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 19:15:10 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:15:10 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:GEN:Getting Arabic in the messages
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.131510.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
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            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Getting Arabic in the messages
2) Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:moderator
Subject:Getting Arabic in the messages

I will summarize the responses I got about which messages were  
readable (so you can see the problem), and then I will post below the  
messages that contain suggestions.  Below that I will post my own  
suggestion for how you can read the Arabic if it is just not coming  
through for you.

Got Arabic:
1 person: ONLY in text message #1
1 person: ONLY in text message #5
3 people: ALL but text message #5
1 person: NONE had good Arabic
2 people: #1, #3, #4 OK, #2, #5 Bad


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:hopie11 at yahoo.com
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

Hello!

FYI on the test messages:

When they first arrived, I couldn't read the Arabic in the original  
message or in any of the test messages, but when I changed the  
encoding on my own machine (to Unicode), I had no trouble with them.  
ah, technology.

Hope Fitzgerald

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
3)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:"Allon Uhlmann" <uhlmanna at umsl.edu>
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

I don't know if it helps, but when I read my email through Outlook  
exchange,
I also get ?????????????  When I use my actual outlook program, I get  
the
original text.  With Eudora I can get the actual text in the preview  
window,
but gibberish when I open the message, however, usually when I send  
it to
the browser I can then get the original (by selecting View ->  
Encoding ->
Arabic for windows).

I hope this helps.

A.

Allon J. Uhlmann
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
University of Missouri - St. Louis
http://www.umsl.edu/~uhlmanna/

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
4)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:a elsherif <alarish5 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

Hi,
TO READ ARABIC TEXT  YOU NEED TO DO " INCODING "
  WHILE YOU ARE ON THE TEXT..CLICK ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE MOUSE ,  
THEN CLICK ON "ENCODING".. CLICK ON ON ARABIC .. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE  
TO READ ARABIC .

PLEASE SEE THIS INFORMATION FROM http://languages.londonmet.ac.uk/ 
community/wordprocessing/arabic/index.htm

I HOPE THIS HELP
ELSHAREIF
Enabling Arabic Support in Windows XP
You will need Administrative privileges to enable the use of Arabic  
on your computer. This will not be a problem for your home computer,  
but will require the intervention of your network manager in an  
educational institution.
Go to Start then Settings then Control Panel and double-click on  
Regional and Language Options.

When the "Regional and Language Options" dialogue box appears, select  
the "Languages" tab at the top of the box and then select "Install  
files for complex script and right-to-left languages". If the files  
necessary for Arabic are not already installed, you will be asked to  
insert the "Windows XP" CD. which will allow you to install the  
missing files – simply follow the instructions which will come up  
automatically. When the necessary changes have been made and you have  
finished with the CD, press the "Details ..." button. A new dialogue  
box will appear entitled "Text Services and Input Languages".


Now you need to add Arabic as an input language before your computer  
will accept typing in Arabic.
In the "Text Services and Input Languages" box, press the "Add"  
button. A box appears entitled "Add Input Language". Choose "Arabic"  
for "Input Language", it does not greatly matter which country you  
choose, the most common choice is "Saudi Arabia". Choose "Arabic  
(101) for "Keyboard Layout / IME" and press OK.

Back in the "Text Services and Input Languages" box, you need to  
specify where you want your Language Bar to be, which will allow you  
to switch between typing in English and Arabic. Click on Language  
Bar ... and a dialogue box will appear entitled "Language Bar Settings".

Select "Show the Language bar on the desktop" and click OK. Click OK  
to exit all the dialogue boxes you have opened.
The "Language Bar" will appear somewhere on your desktop and y ou can  
move it to where you find it most convenient (probably the System  
Tray located in the bottom right hand corner of your screen.) When  
you want to input Arabic in a document, you simply need to click on  
EN (for English) to bring up the option AR (for Arabic.)
Whichever you select, the keyboard will insert the characters of that  
language.


If the Language Bar option in the Text Services and Input Languages  
dialogue box, referred to above, is not available, click the Advanced  
tab at the top and ensure that the option marked Turn off advanced  
text services is not checked.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
5)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:"George N. Hallak, Boston" <GnhBos at aol.com>
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

Hi Samar,

The symbols may mean that you do not have the Arabic font on your PC.
Try this trick, hit "Reply", if you still do not see the Arabic text,
highlight
the symbols and select a font from your font list on your PC.

Let me know if it works. Shukran!


Best Regards,

George N. Hallak

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
6)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:"Mahmoud Elsayess" <melsayess at socal.rr.com>
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

A major causal factor in the receipt of illegible messages over the  
Internet is the adoption of incompatible standards by a multitude of  
system developers and manufacturers.  Depending on their respective  
locations, these system vendors adhere to standards set by either ISO  
(International Organization for Standardization) or ANSI (American  
National Standards Institute).  While the latter focuses on the U.S.,  
the former is adhered to in other countries.  Both organizations  
oversee the creation, promulgation and use of norms and guidelines  
that directly impact businesses in nearly every sector.
Both organizations are dedicated to enhancing competitiveness by  
promoting and facilitating voluntary consensus standards and  
conformity assessment systems, and safeguarding their integrity.   
Unfortunately, however, certain standards set by each respective  
organization may not be compatible.  This issue has occurred in  
software and systems used in negotiating the Internet. The problem  
that has resulted is that in the sending of foreign languages on the  
Internet over all types of systems and disciplines the chances of  
incompatibility are significant, and will often result in the  
receiving of useless, illegible messages or data.
Additionally, for similar reasons spam filter rules may alter and  
make messages unreadable.

Thank you

Mahmoud Elsayess

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
7)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:"Dilworth Parkinson" <dil at byu.edu>
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

OK, here is my suggestion.  It is a lot of work, but if you just  
aren't getting Arabic, and there is an occasional message that you  
would really like to see, this should work for everybody.

1) open a browser (I suggest firefox) and go to any Arabic language  
site (like Aljazeera) and make sure that you can get Arabic in  
general.  If you can't, stop now, because I can't help you.  If you  
can, go on.

2) using that browser, log on to listserv.byu.edu.  If you have done  
this before, it will probably remember you.  If you have set your  
password and it doesn't remember you, you will have to log in with  
your password.  If you have never logged in or set your password  
before, then you will need to follow the instructions I sent before  
for doing so.  For your convenience, I have copied them below.

3) Click on Subscribers Corner

4) Click on Arabic-L.  This will take you to a page where you can  
change your subscription details.  You don't want to do that right  
now, but you have to come here to get to the next page.

5) Click on Back To Arabic-L Page.  This will take you to a list of  
months where the messages are archived.

6) Click, for example, on May 2007.  This gives you a list of the  
messages that were posted in May, but unordered.

7) To get the messages to show up in date order, click on the second  
button from the left on the button menu at the top; it is the one  
with the numbers 1 and 2 on little 'piece of paper/calendar icons'.

8) Once the messages are in date order, scroll down to the bottom of  
the list to see the Messages that were posted on May 30th.  Click on  
Test Message #1.  This shows the message in a text format, but the  
Arabic should be readable.  If it is too small to read, you can make  
the font bigger (on the mac it is command-+ but it might be some  
other command on a PC or a different browser.

9) There are two buttons in the menu bar now with jkl on them.  If  
you click on the left one of those, the text will change to a nicer  
and more readable font (although this varies from browser to  
browser).  However, it can often also destroy some of the formatting  
(like getting rid of returns, etc.)

10) If, as is the case with this message, the original was posted in  
an html format, there will be a little thing to click on at the  
bottom of the message that says [text/html] but underlined or blue or  
whatever to draw your attention.  If you click on that, a new window  
will open and that will allow you to see the message more or less as  
originally formatted.

11) The arrows on the left two buttons will take you forward and back  
through the messages from this page if you like.

12) You can try the other buttons, but the one on the very right gets  
rid of your cookie, which means that you will HAve to log in again  
the next time you come to this site.

This would probably not be something you would want to do every day,  
but if you are desperate to see a message in Arabic, this method  
should work for you.



HERE ARE THE PROMISED INSTRUCTIONS THAT WERE POSTED EARLIER FOR  
GETTING SET UP ON THE LISTSERV.BYU.EDU WEBSITE:


As I mentioned in an earlier message, Arabic-L has been migrated to  
updated listserv software.  This adds an archive at Arabic-L itself  
(besides the archive maintained by Linguist), and it also allows you  
more control over your own subscription.  Here is how it works.

1. Determine what e-mail address you are signed up to Arabic-L  
under.  (This is important, because the other steps won't work unless  
you have the right version of your address.)  If you can't figure it  
out, e-mail me directly at dil at byu.edu.

2. Using a browser, log on to listserv.byu.edu.

3. Click on Get a LISTESERV password for this server.  This will  
bring you to a page where you will type in the e-mail address  
mentioned in #1 above, and then set a password, which you need to  
remember.

4. Go back to the listserv.byu.edu page and log on with your e-mail  
address and password.

5. Click on Subscriber's Corner.

6. A list of the things you are subscribed to will appear (probably  
just Arabic-L).

7. Click on Arabic-L to view and change your subscriber options.

8. On this page you can
	a. change the e-mail address you want to be subscribed from, by  
typing in the new address in the box (over the old one)
	b. change your subscription type: regular just posts the messages as  
I send them out, digest combines them into one long message and sends  
them out once a day, and index (I think) sends you the headers only.
	c. change the mail header style
	d. change the acknowledgements: noack means you won't receive  
confirmation that your message has been sent, and ack means the  
opposite.  If you leave Receive copy of own postings checked or  
unchecked, probably nothing will change.
	e. Miscellaneous: nomail temporarily stops sending you arabic-l  
messages (while you are on vacation, for example).  When you set your  
own local server to send out a message stating that you are away on  
vacation, I get that message for every message I send out.  When you  
multiply that by the number of subscribers on vacation at any one  
time, you might realize why I get hundreds of unwanted messages  
daily.  So, before you go on vacation, if you are going to set your  
own server to send out that message, it would also be nice if you set  
your Arabic-L subscription to nomail.  If I get annoyed enough I will  
do it for you.
	f. if you click Address concealed from REVIEW listing, then  
subscribers who request to see the list of subscribers to Arabic-L  
will not be given access to your address.  If you leave it unchecked,  
subscribers who want to see a list of other subscribers to Arabic-L  
will get a list that will include your address.  Non-subscribers will  
not have access to this list in any case.  If you send a message to  
Arabic-L, however, that in effect gives me permission to put your  
address on the message, so clicking this option doesn't conceal your  
address in all circumstances, only in the case of a subscriber  
sending a REVIEW command to the listserv and receiving back a list of  
subscribers.

9. Before you leave this window, you must click Update Options for  
the new selections to go into effect.

10. If you want to unsubscribe to Arabic-L, simply click on the  
button Leave Arabic-L

Most of the options on the subscriber options page have an underline,  
and if you click on that word you will be given more information  
about that option, although not always all the information you might  
want.

In some lists like Arabic-L the moderator simply sends the message on  
to subscribers without altering it. However, in Arabic-L, the message  
is copied into a template that includes the date, the topic, and  
which groups messages on the same subject together.  To accomplish  
this, I have to 'reject' the original message so it doesn't get  
passed on, and then send the revised format to the list.  If you get  
a rejection notice and then the message comes through anyway, that is  
probably the reason.
Remember, however, that the list is now set to automatically reject  
anything with attachments, so those won't get through to me at all.   
If you must send an attachment, send it directly to me, but it would  
be better to copy the contents of the attachment into the message  
itself, which is what I have to do before I post it.


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 20:29:13 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:29:13 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Graduate Translation Program--U. of Illinois
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.142913.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Graduate Translation Program--U. of Illinois

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 June 2007
From:<mbooth at uiuc.edu>
Subject:Graduate Translation Program--U. of Illinois

I cannot claim that the University of Illinois has a PhD in  
translation studies, but we have just been approved to start a  
Translation Studies Program, initially with a graduate certificate  
and hopefully expanding from there. I teach a well-received literary  
translation course and I hope that with our expanding Arabic-centric  
expertise, we'll be able to offer exciting possibilities to graduate  
students interested in this field.

My heart is in literary translation! and I welcome inquiries.

best to all,

Marilyn Booth

Director, Program in South Asian and Middle Eastern Studies

Associate Professor, Comparative and World Literature


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 June 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 20:29:21 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:29:21 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:William and Mary Job
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.142921.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:William and Mary Job

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 June 2007
From:"John Eisele" <jceise at wm.edu>
Subject:William and Mary Job

The Department of Modern Languages and Literatures of The College of  
William and Mary is looking to fill a position of full-time  
instructor in Arabic language beginning Fall Semester 2007. Initial  
appointment is for one year, with the possibility for renewal up to  
five years. Responsibilities include three courses per semester at  
the elementary and/or intermediate levels as well as administration  
of drill sessions. Fluency in Modern Standard Arabic is required and  
native or near native fluency in an Arabic dialect is desirable.  
Applicants should have native, or near native fluency in MSA, one  
dialect and English.  MA or higher in Arabic language study, or  
literature, or an allied field is required.  Preference will be given  
to candidates with successful teaching records in Arabic. Salary is  
commensurate with qualifications and teaching experience. An  
application letter, current curriculum vitae, and three letters of  
reference can be sent electronically via email to the following  
address:  jceise at wm.edu. Hard copies of the above should be sent to:  
Arabic Search Committee, c/o Ms Shelia Eubank,  Dept. of Modern  
Languages and Literatures, College of William and Mary,  Box 8795,  
Williamsburg VA 23187-8795. The College of William and Mary is an  
Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. Women and minorities  
are encouraged to apply. Review of applications will begin on June 21  
and continue until the position is filled.

John Eisele
Dept of Modern Languages & Literatures
College of William & Mary
Williamsburg VA 23185
fax: 757-221-3137

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 June 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 20:29:34 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:29:34 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.142934.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 June 2007
From:Mustafa Mughazy <mustafa.mughazy at wmich.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First

The Arabic program at Western Michigan University is undergoing a  
comprehensive overhaul of its language curriculum.

Starting fall 07, the first semester will exclusively teach a  
colloquial dialect in the Arabic script. The second semester will  
continue the dialect and introduce MSA as a written language. Second  
and third year courses will focus mainly on MSA. Study abroad  
programs will focus mainly on the dialects. The objective is for  
students to develop a level of dual proficiency where they can  
interact with native speakers in a “natural” way (a dialect) and use  
MSA as a language for reading and writing.

This change is based on students’ responses to a questionnaire  
comparing their experience learning Arabic to other languages, such  
as Spanish and Chinese. Many students expressed their frustration  
that the Arabic they learn in first year courses is “not very  
useful”, as they cannot use it with native speakers and it is very  
different from authentic MSA including children’s books. For one  
thing, native speakers’ responses to students’ attempts at MSA  
include uncomfortable laughter, English discourse, and super fusha.  
Also, most authentic materials in MSA do not include language about  
one’s family, self introductions, or small talk. Students expressed  
their frustration that MSA is “disconnected” from Arab culture, as it  
does not help with popular culture (songs, movies, TV shows, etc.).  
Compared to Spanish and Chinese first year courses, Arabic was “as  
dry as a dead language pretending to be cool”.

We expect language transfer from the colloquial to MSA in writing and  
mixing MSA and the colloquial in speech. Isn’t that what native  
speakers of Arabic do? Even college students do that with English and  
their regional/ethnic dialects.

On the positive side, we feel that more students will continue  
studying Arabic beyond their college language requirement because of  
the self-rewarding nature of learning a dialect.

Feedback from similar experiments, ideas, and comments are most  
welcome and highly appreciated!

Thank you

Mustafa Mughazy

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 June 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 20:29:26 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:29:26 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Is there an online Placement test?
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.142926.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Is there an online Placement test?

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 June 2007
From:
Subject:Is there an online Placement test?

hi,

      is there any on-line Arabic placement test?  thank  
you.                           Mike Schub


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 June 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 20:29:35 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:29:35 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:GEN:List matters
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.142935.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:List Matters

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 June 2007
From:moderator
Subject:List matters

I will be out of town for a week or so, but have decided to try doing  
Arabic-L from my laptop with the browser interface.  It is a little  
complicated, but hopefully it will work.  The problem is that  
messages that come through fine when I download them to my mail  
program end up with garbage in them on the part of the browser I have  
to use.  Therefore, if you send messages during the next while or so  
with Arabic in them, I may not be able to post them for a couple of  
weeks.  I cannot, for example, post the currently pending messages  
about plurals for that reason.

Dil


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:28 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:28 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Negative Reactions to Colloquial First
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114728.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Negative Reactions to Colloquial First
2) Subject:Negative Reactions to Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"Schub, Michael B." <Michael.Schub at trincoll.edu>
Subject:Negative Reactions to Colloquial First

hi,

       One underlying academic question is 'how low can we  
go?' [limbo having been officially been damned {darned?} to limbo].

       In about 1929(?) the Turks replaced their modified Arabic  
script with a latinized script [similar to English] because the  
former represented the phonology and morphology of Turkish as  
pathetically and as inefficiently as it does all Arabic dialects.   
Thus almost all academic textbooks worthy of the name for dialectal  
Arabic are written in phonetic [again, similar to English] script.

      The four years I taught Arabic at Yale (on a different planet),  
only FUSHA was taught, WITHOUT ANY ORAL REQUIREMENT.  Those students  
who immediately went on to Middlebury (one of them is now Professor  
of Middle Eastern Studies at MIT) reported that they were a bit lost  
for about two weeks, and subsequently they became the mentors of many  
advanced students who were clueless as to the case endings (al- 
i`raab  <  root  `\ `  r  b  \  = THAT WHICH MAKES ARABIC ARABIC) and  
were unable to look up an Arabic word in an Ar--Eng dictionary!

      Courses in pure MSA (modern FUSHA) tend to turn off students  
who are intellectually lazy and merely want to PARTY.  They have no  
desire to do academically worthwhile homework--yet some of us must  
accomodate them to have enrollment in our classes.

       Sibawayhi is spinning in his grave like an atomic dreidel.

                                  Ma`a  ssalaama,

                                                                         
             Mike Schub

P.S.  according to this proposed plan, your Arabic students will be  
totally ILLITERATE in Arabic after one entire year of university  
instruction

       Ibn Jinni is spinning in his grave like an atomic dreidel.

                                                                         
                                    ms

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"John Joseph Colangelo" <yaacolangelo at hotmail.com>
Subject:Negative Reactions to Colloquial First

I completely disagree with this. I find students who worry about  
learning

dialect completely incompetent in learning fusha and thus understanding

written material. I have colleagues who have spent years in Arab  
countries

worrying about dialect not understand classical material at all!  My

personal experience was learning MSA as well as classical Arabic  
(religious

and literary texts) through classical Arabic and then, when living  
there in

situ, learning the dialect rather quickly. And if Arabs respond in  
English

it is because they want to practise their English at the expense of the

American students. You have to be a good speaker for them to answer in

Arabic. Maybe instead of giving the classes in English, you should  
give the

classes in Arabic? Maybe when sending the students to an Arab  
country, you

should send them to a program where it is forbidden to use English. Mind

you, I do believe that dialect should be taught but after acquiring  
solid

foundations in classical Arabic not at the beginning. Which dialect  
are you

going to teach? Why that dialect? Maybe students learning that  
dialect wont

understand other dialects. Maybe using that dialect in other  
countries will

earn the annoyance of natives in that country. There are many factors to

consider.


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:30 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:30 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Positive to Neutral Reactions to Colloquial First
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114730.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Positive to Neutral Reactions to Colloquial First
2) Subject:Positive to Neutral Reactions to Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"Waheed Samy" <wasamy at umich.edu>
Subject:

Dear Mustafa,

This idea of starting students with colloquial Arabic during the first

semester makes sense.  You point out several concerns that some of us  
share.

Students have complained that they have not been sufficiently warned  
about

the situation they find themselves in when all they know is MSA.  Your

experiment should be a very interesting one.  I would personally be very

interested to learn what you discover as you implement this new plan:  
what

gains, what losses, and what difficulties.

Waheed Samy



------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--

2)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"Waheed Samy" <wasamy at umich.edu>
Subject:Positive to Neutral Reactions to Colloquial First
At BYU for several years now we have been including colloquial with  
fusha during the first two years of instruction.  We spend the first  
month to two months working on the script and colloquial, so they get  
something of a grounding in basic survival level speaking, and then  
we start the fusha materials and continue with both, about half the  
time on each.  We make something of an effort to keep the two  
straight, partly by emphasizing survival speaking in colloquial and  
more formal topics and reading in fusha, but we don't obsess over  
it.  We have over 150 students a year start out Arabic 101, and far  
less than half of these make it to third year and any hope of real  
fluency.  We have not felt that we have harmed our good students at  
all with this method (several have gone on to become CASA students  
and excellent Arabists), but we also felt a moral duty to do  
something for those students who were only going to be with us for a  
semester or two or three.  What this does for them is gives them the  
ability to do something fun and useful with the small amount of  
Arabic they know, and if they go to the Middle East, it gives them  
survival skills useful for taking taxis, buying things in the market,  
getting and giving directions and the like.  It prepares all of the  
students for the 'real world' where the reality is that the two  
varieties exist not only side by side, but all wrapped up in each  
other, with much modern literature filled to the brim with  
colloquial, and with even newspapers and other news sources having  
far more colloquial than many care to admit.  There is something  
archaic and even otherworldly about a purist insistence on fusha only  
for our students, when no one insists on such a thing for native  
speakers, and when the language they are going to encounter has  
little to do with that purist ideal.

Another thing I would like to point out is that when we do colloquial  
we don't explain much (although we do some), we just do a lot of  
talking about very basic things.  This means that when we reach  
things like the idaafa, or noun adjective phrases, etc. in Fusha, we  
can just say: you know, like we say such and such in colloquial, and  
they are already quite accustomed to it and it doesn't seem strange  
at all to them.  It helps them get from the theoretical to the  
practical in a very short time.

Except for the first couple of weeks, we do colloquial entirely in  
script.  We make no effort whatsoever to 'represent' the language  
with the script in any kind of complete way.  The students end up  
learning that sometimes colloquial words are written more like they  
sound, and sometimes more like they are written in fusha, and that as  
long as they know that it is colloquial and they know the word, it  
shouldn't bother them.  This has turned into a major advantage to the  
students once they become advanced and have to deal with the wide  
variety of methods native speakers use for writing the colloquial.

Dil Parkinson

dil at byu.edu


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End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:50:25 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:50:25 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:AATA Newsletter out
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.115025.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:AATA Newsletter out

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:moderator
Subject:AATA Newsletter out

The AATA electronic newsletter has just come out. AATA is worried  
that some who should be on the mailing list are not, so if you have  
not received your copy and you think you should have, contact:
Karin Ryding  (rydingk at georgetown.edu) and copy John Eisele  
(jceise at wm.edu) so that they can make sure to be up to date with the  
mailing list
.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:16 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:16 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Needs refs on Arabic transcription systems
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114716.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs refs on Arabic transcription systems

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:Aissa.Abderrahman at Colorado.EDU
Subject:Needs refs on Arabic transcription systems

Dear colleagues:

I have a graduate student who is doing a research on Arabic  
transcription in/via western letters and symbols. Any references,  
books will help her a great deal

Baaaraka Allahu feekum,

Thanks

AA

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End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:20 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:20 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:More info and queries on Translation Programs
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114720.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:New York Translation Program Query
2) Subject:A European program

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"Rita Zihenni" <ritazihenni at gmail.com>
Subject:New York City or On-line Translation Program Query

Hello,

I am really interested in a graduate translation program. Howver, i  
live in

new york, and i was wondering if there is atranslation program in the  
new

york area or is it possible to get a degree online.

Thank you

Rita Zihenni

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"David Wilmsen" <dww22 at georgetown.edu>
Subject:A European program

Another European programme.

David Wilmsen

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Reine Meylaerts <Reine.MEYLAERTS at arts.kuleuven.be>

Date: 07-Jun-2007 05:13

Subject: [Fwd: [itit] MA / PhD in Translation and Intercultural Studies]

Please note that second-round applications are now possible for the

  Tarragona MA/PhD program in Translation and Intercultural Studies.

  This is a research-training program only. It will teach you how to

  write a good PhD thesis. It will not teach you how to translate.

  The program is taught in English and is about 50% in distance mode.

  The staff and courses are brilliant (well, we might be biased) but the

  entry requirements are draconian, especially with regard to proof of

  your previous studies.

  These are the same PhD courses as we have been giving since 2003. The

  only thing that has changed is the name: they are now called Masters

  courses.

  More information:

  http://isg.urv.es/publicity/doctorate/index.html


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End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:13 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:13 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:AD:Gerlach Books discount on Enc. of Quran
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114713.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Gerlach Books discount on Enc. of Quran

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:eq at gerlach-books.de
Subject:Gerlach Books discount on Enc. of Quran

We would like to remind you that our special offer will end on  
Friday, 15th June 2007.

Please find below the details of our special offer again:
More than 20% discount for Brill's Encyclopaedia of the Quran (6 vols).

*****************************************************************
Encyclopaedia of the Quran, 6 vols set
EUR 1200 (instead of list price EUR 1512)
Plus EUR 40 for surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Prepayment required
Offer valid until June 15th, 2007 only.
*****************************************************************
KAI-HENNING GERLACH - BOOKS & ONLINE
Middle Eastern & Islamic Studies

D-10711 Berlin, Germany
Heilbronner Straße 10
Telefon +49 30 3249441
Telefax +49 30 3235667
e-mail khg at gerlach-books.de
www.gerlach-books.de

USt/VAT No. DE 185 061 373
Verkehrs-Nr. 24795 (BAG)
EAN 4330931247950

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:25 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:25 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:On Line Placement Test Responses
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114725.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:On Line Placement Test Response
2) Subject:On Line Placement Test Response

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"raram" <raram at umich.edu>
Subject:On Line Placement Test Response

Check with Center for Applied Linguistics in Washington.

Raji Rammuny

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"kamal19" <kamal19 at aucegypt.edu>
Subject:On Line Placement Test Response

Dear all,

Yes, the Arabic Language Institute (ALI) at the American University  
in Cairo (AUC) uploaded and activated its online placement test a  
month ago. ALI students can now take the test on line when they  
receive their acceptance letter. On other words, once a student  
receives his/her acceptance letter, s/he receives an automatic  
generated email to give him/her the instruction of how do the test  
and the account information. The test consists on reading, listening  
and writing. you may have a look at the instructions and a sample of  
the test if you go to

http://alitest.aucegypt.edu/aliplacementtest/

Please don't hesitate to email me if you have any question.

Sincerely,

Kamal  AlEkhnawy

Head of Computer-Assisted Language Learning (CALL) Unit

Arabic Language Institute (ALI)

The American University in Cairo (AUC)

Mobile: +2 010 5420209

Tel. office: +2 02 797-5039

Business Fax: +2 02 795-7565

Email: kamal19 at aucegypt.edu

Business Website: www.aucegypt.edu/ali

Personal website: www.kamalalekhnawy.com

Post Mail:

113 Kasr El-Aini street-11511

B.O. Box 2511

Cario, Egypt

Room number 363

Main  building

From"zeinab Taha" zeintaha at aucegypt.edu

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End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:42 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:42 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Arabic Plays for Students
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105542.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Arabic Plays for Students

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From: "Haroon Shirwani" <arabictutor at hotmail.com>
Subject:Arabic Plays for Students

First of all, many thanks to those kind people who replied with  
suggestions for poems for our declamation contest. In the end we  
chose Ana `Usfura by Anonymous, Talasim (that poem by Ilya Abu Madi  
about the chap who doesn't know whether he's coming or going), Al- 
Wilada fi mudun lam tulad by Bayyati and a few snatches of Nizar  
Qabbani, including Risala min taht al-ma'.

Now we are thinking of putting on a short Arabic play. Any  
suggestions? It would need to be doable for the students performing  
it and enjoyable (or, at least, interesting) for the friends,  
relatives and members of staff who are coming to see it.

Best wishes,
Haroon

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:37 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:37 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Arguments for Colloquial First
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105537.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Arguments for Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"David Wilmsen" <dww22 at georgetown.edu>
Subject:Arguments for Colloquial First

The twin notions that students who wish to learn a vernacular variety
of Arabic are lazy or incapable of learning to read and write Arabic
are preposterous.  Has either proposition ever been tested
objectively? In fact the second has been by Qafisheh, the results of
which he reported to the 6th ACTFL annual meeting, Atlanta, Georgia,
1972 in a paper entitled  "From Gulf Arabic into Modern Standard
Arabic:  A pilot study."  He points out that students who begin their
study of Arabic with exposure to the vernacular are generally more
motivated and successful in their study than are those who begin with
fusha.  (Thirty-five  years ago and we are still debating the issue!)

That students are purely lazy and simply wish to party is a novel
argument (at least to me) in the ongoing debate about how to solve the
problem of dialect in university programmes.  I do not wish to imply
that students are not interested in partying, but to say that they are
lazy is entirely contrary to the facts (at least at  Arizona, Yarmouk,
Michigan, Georgetown, and the American University in Cairo, where I
have experience as either a student of Arabic or a teacher or a
director of an Arabic programme).  Those of my current students at GU
who are taking both fusha and Egyptian Arabic are carrying a combined
credit-hour load of nine hours of Arabic over and above their other
credits. For that reason alone, they cannot be called lazy in the
usual sense of the word.  What is more, those with the interest to
acquire some proficiency in both varieties of the language are
by-and-large a serious bunch, fascinated by all aspects of the
language, within the normal range of interest and capailities, and
itching to learn as much as they can about both.  Most of those who
are not now studying a vernacular, intend to do.  Most are also
enormously frustrated  with the practice of teaching them to contend
with fusha before they are given a systematic treatment of the
vernacular.  It is irresponsible for us as their instructors and
programme administrators to deny them this insofar as it is within our
abilities to do otherwise.  Indeed, I rather think it is we who are
lazy and not our students.  We simply do not wish to expend the effort
to produce engaging teaching materials or to learn to use them (which
might imply learning to speak Arabic the way native speakers of the
language do).

What is more, objections predicated upon the laziness of students, or
their inability to acquire proficiency in nominal declensions once or
if they become proficient in a vernacular, or the fear of betraying
the scholarly tradition of the study of the glorious Arabic literary
heritage ignore the reasons given by Mughazy for implementing a
programme that introduces students to vernacular Arabic first as much
as they ignore the social reality of Arabic in its natural
environment.  How many native speakers of Arabic, even well educated
ones, can decline nouns flawlessly?  And among those who can, how many
do? (In anecdotal support of this, I just watched a guest on an
al-jazeera talk show attempting to speak with nominal declensions with
horribly solecistic results).

I have worked for years with Arabic interpreters and teachers of
translation and interpreting whose very professional success hinges
upon their proficiency in composing and declaiming in fusha.  The fact
of the matter is that despite their very advanced professional
proficiency in that variety, they spend most of their time in the
vernacular, even in their professional pursuits.  They conduct almost
all of their discourse respecting the fields and techniques,
terminology and texts of translation and interpreting; concerning the
advising and teaching of students of translation and interpreting
(along with the teaching itself); and certainly all of the daily
office procedures and operations of an academic department or a
translation office in vernacular Arabic. In more than a decade of
observing Arabic interpreters at work, I only once witnessed an
interpreter performing in the booth while declining all of his nouns,
to the great admiration of his colleagues.  Most of his colleagues
never bothered, or, as is perhaps more likely, are not capable of
doing so in the first place.

Why should we teach our students to speak Arabic in a way native
speakers do not?  Well, if our goal is to produce government spokesmen
whose sole skill is declaiming in fusha over the Arabic airways - the
way the programmes in the former Soviet republics do - or scholars who
can parse ancient texts without ever leaving their wood-panelled
offices, then the exercise is worthwhile.  While those may be our
goals (they are not mine), they certainly are not the goals of most of
our students, serious and lazy.

To teach Arabic as a dead literary language in order to produce
graduates who can decline Arabic nouns flawlessly but who cannot speak
a word of it seems counterproductive in the extreme and it neither
serves the interests of students nor of their potential employers
after graduation.  What is more, it is contrary to current trends in
language teaching, wherein students are taught to engage their
language first by using it as a medium for meeting immediate needs and
providing basic information about themselves, their histories, and
their interests.  It would laughable if it were not so common, to
encourage students do this this in fusha with, as Campbell points out
(in a 1986 essay entitled "The Modern Arabic Course – A Challenge."
that appeared in the International Review of Applied Linguistics in
Language Teaching), all the enthusiasm of "a high school play
rehearsal where confused but courageous youths try to make light
banter of Richard II." is to teach students to do something that no
native speaker of Arabic does.  The alternative, to teach them all
about the higher registers of Arabic, and then to launch them into the
Arab world (those lucky enough to get there), where they are to get by
as best they can, learning a vernacular if they are so disposed to do
so, is rather like teaching them to fly before they learn to walk.

Most of our students, even those who become really good with their
language, are not going into work in the academy, and they are not
going to spend their professional lives investigating ancient
manuscripts, as exciting as that work can be.  What is more, most of
students will probably study no more than two years of language, just
enough to satisfy a graduation requirement (as do most college
students of language).  Any of those who spend all of their time with
fusha will be incapable of contending with classical texts too.  (And
why the assumption that teaching students to contend with classical
texts is an unqualified good for University Arabic programmes?  Surely
there are other worthwhile scholarly pursuits that one might pursue
with his Arabic!).  The interests of both are better served teaching
them real Arabic speech along with reading and writing more or less in
that order.

I think it possible to teach students enough vernacular Arabic in the
space of one or two terms as to enable them then to move into the
study of fusha using the vernacular as a classroom medium, as is the
practice in some parts of the Arabaphone world, and indeed may be the
experience of many many in their first encounter with formal learning
of the Arabic writing system, as they will probably attend quranic
classes in a local mosque presided over by a kindly grandfather who
instructs his charges in the language of the hearth and home.  In case
you think I am engaging in stereotyping, permit me to counter that I
used to see this in practice every day on my way home from work,
walking through the neighborhood of Zeitoun in Cairo.  Or, don't take
my word for it.  Tune in to Dream TV and watch Ahmad Amer expounding
upon tajwiid verse-by-verse in fine, good-humoured Egyptian colloquial
Arabic.

My contention has been borne out to my own satisfaction in the past
year, in which I took the best of my students from no functional
proficiency in Egyptian vernacular to mid intermediate inside of one
or two semesters, the best of them, certainly not lazy, in one
semester.  I believe that all of them would now be capable of
following a fusha class using the vernacular as the medium (and
indeed, I would occasionally conduct discussions of the differences
between fusha and 3aameyya in the vernacular).

To begin Arabic teaching with a vernacular would be to reproduce in
the classroom the native speaker experience. And it would solve the
perennial problem of how to begin teaching first-year fusha using
Arabic as a medium.

To the specious counter argument "which vernacular should we teach?",
my reply is whatever vernacular of which a department has native
speakers, whatever vernacular for which there is a large demand (for
instance Iraqi, just now), or by default Cairene.  As we all know,
Cairene is understood by anyone who has a television.  Our students
may not immediately upon arrival understand the local vernacular, but
the locals will understand them - once they recover from their
surprise at hearing an obvious foreigner speaking Egyptian Arabic. It
does not take much time to begin understanding a new vernacular once
the student has mastered one. This happened to me once in Morocco: at
first utterance my speech was not understood, as my interlocutors
expected me to address them in French, Spanish, or perhaps English;
when I repeated, they could understand easily and in fact they would
laugh because to them I sounded like Adel Imam.  I had a bit more of a
problem understanding them; but after about a week, I had learned most
of the dialect differences in the functional vocabulary of the
Marakesh vernacular and we all got along splendidly.  More recently, I
was travelling in Jordan and the Gulf; when people heard my Egyptian
accent, they assumed that I was indeed Egyptian, even though I don't
look it.  When I said I was, they believed it (once in Jordan, someone
thought I was Circassian).  Noone got annoyed at hearing someone who
obviously was not from the locale speaking another variety of the
language.

Where do we find the teachers?  That is what everyone is asking these
days.  We could find dozens upon dozens of hugely talented teachers if
we got over our institutional bias toward PhDs.  I personally know a
score or more of brilliant teachers possessing Master's degrees in
teaching Arabic as a foreign language and long years of experience who
would come west under almost any condition.  But they are competing
with ABDs and PhD holders.

--  
David Wilmsen, PhD, Arabic language and linguistics
Visiting Associate Professor of Arabic
Dept of Arabic and Islamic Studies
Georgetown University

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:56 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:56 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:National University Arabic Studies Survey
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105556.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:National University Arabic Studies Survey

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"Michael McAnear" <mmcanear at nu.edu>
Subject:National University Arabic Studies Survey

National University, in collaboration with the Language Acquisition
Resource Center at San Diego State University, is proposing to develop a
Bachelor of Arts in Arabic Studies leading to teaching certification.
The program would be offered in the classroom, as well as online, and is
intended to serve as a model for similar programs throughout the US. To
gauge interest in such a program, we have developed a brief online
survey. Your help is greatly appreciated. Please distribute to your
mailing list and/or make available from your website.

http://www.questionpro.com/akira/TakeSurvey?id=716890&ext_ref=3

Thank you,

Michael McAnear, PhD, Dean
College of Letters and Sciences
National University
mmcanear at nu.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:56:03 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:56:03 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Elon University Job
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105603.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Elon University Job

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:swindham at elon.edu
Subject:Elon University Job

Elon University
Visiting Assistant Professor of Arabic, Full- or Part-Time

Elon University seeks applicants for a full- or part-time continuing  
position at the visiting assistant professor level. Duties to begin  
immediately. Minimum requirements: M.A. in Arabic or related  
discipline; native or near-native fluency in Arabic; and demonstrated  
excellence in teaching at the undergraduate level. Elon is an  
undergraduate teaching institution, and serious commitment to quality  
teaching is essential. Responsibilities include teaching language,  
composition, and conversation courses. Teaching duties will also  
include courses (in English) on the Middle East, as part of the  
interdisciplinary general studies program. Elon is the recent  
recipient of a two-year Department of Education grant to develop its  
Middle Eastern Studies program. Elon is a dynamic private co- 
educational, comprehensive institution that is a national model for  
actively engaging faculty and students in teaching and learning. To  
learn more about Elon, please visit our Web site at www.elon.edu.  
Immediate email inquiri
es are welcome at swindham at elon.edu (prior to June 15) or  
dbodegra at elon.edu (after June 15). Review will begin immediately;  
complete applications must be received by August 15 to be assured of  
consideration. Send letter of application, curriculum vitae,  
statement of teaching philosophy, graduate and undergraduate  
transcripts, and three letters of support to: Dr. Donna Van  
Bodegraven, Chair, Department of Foreign Languages, c/o Linda  
Martindale, 2125 Campus Box, Elon University, Elon, North Carolina  
27244. Elon University is an equal opportunity employer committed to  
a diverse faculty, staff, and student body. Candidates from  
underrepresented groups are encouraged to apply.


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--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:46 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:46 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Arabic Transcription System refs
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105546.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Arabic Transcription System refs

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"Alexis Neme" <alexis.neme at gmail.com>
Subject:Arabic Transcription System refs

Dear colleage,

    For computer application, the most common transcription system is
Tim Buckwalter transcription (Penn university): for each letter in
Arabic there is only one letter in Latin alphabet.

For a similar pronunciation of Arabic in western alphabet, Buckwalter
transcription is good but i think you can find better solution or
maybe it does not fit your requirement.

Alexis

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:48 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:48 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First Suggestions
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105548.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First Suggestions

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"Bernhardt, James E" <BernhardtJE at state.gov>
Subject:Colloquial First Suggestions

This has been an interesting discussion so far.  I think it is worth
noting that second language acquisition research and experience seems to
indicate that at early levels of acquisition students are working with
memorized units and have no flexibility in their ability to produce.  At
the 0+ students are "able to satisfy immediate needs using rehearsed
utterances. [They] show little real autonomy of expression, flexibility
or spontaneity. [They] can ask questions or make statements with
reasonable accuracy only with memorized utterances or formulae. Attempts
at creating speech are usually unsuccessful." (ILR skill level
descriptions http://www.govtilr.org/ILRscale2.htm#0+)  In other words,
when we give students choices, they can't handle them because they can't
create speech yet.  Thus, it would seem to me that introducing MSA in
the second semester is too early (unless you have your students, like we
do, for 25 contact hours per week and require homework on top of that).

James E. Bernhardt
Chair, Near East, Central and South Asian Languages
FSI
703-302-7291

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:56:01 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:56:01 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Article on Testing in Arabic
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105601.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Article on Testing in Arabic

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:paula santillan <capraia at yahoo.com>
Subject:Article on Testing in Arabic

for a general, updated view on testing arabic, i
suggest the following article:

P. Winke, R. Aquil, Issues in Developing Standardized
Tests of Arabic Language Proficiency, in Handbook for
Arabic Language Teaching Professionals in the 21st
Century
Edited by Kassem M. Wahba

-p

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:44 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:44 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Needs etymology or info on 'ahar-
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105544.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs etymology or info on 'ahar-

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:Cerwyd at msn.com
Subject:Needs etymology or info on 'ahar-

Dear List Members:

There is apparently a rare Arabic word, 'ahar-, meaning "good form".   
This has been proposed as a root which might have had a cognate in  
early Hebrew.  As such, it may provide an etymology for the Biblical  
name Aaron.  However, as it appears to only be found in a few old  
dictionaries, some have suggested it may be a 'ghost' word.

Can anyone kindly supply me with additional information about this  
word in terms of its origin, cognates in other languages, etc.?

Thank you and most sincere best wishes,

Daniel Hunt

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:50 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:50 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:More negative reactions to Colloquial First
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105550.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"haider bhuiyan" <haider.bhuiyan.2 at m.cc.utah.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First

I second the view:
"I find students who worry about learning dialect completely  
incompetent in learning fusha and thus understanding
written material. ..... I do believe that dialect should be taught  
but after acquiring solid foundations in classical Arabic not at the  
beginning."

Best,

Haider Bhuiyan

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:40 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:40 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L;LNG:ARAM Conference info
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105540.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:ARAM Conference info

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:aram at aramsociety.org
Subject:ARAM Conference info

Dear Colleague,
The previous date of the ARAM Twenty Fifth International Conference  
1-3 July 2008 at Oxford University has been changed to 7-9 July 2008,  
because of the World Archaeological Congress (WAC) at Dublin University.
We hope that the new date of our ARAM conference 7-9 July 2008 is  
convenient for you.
We would like also to encourage those who have not yet registered for  
the above ARAM conference to do so before August.
Please find enclosed the names of the first speakers.
Yours sincerely,

Shafiq Abouzayd (Dr.)


Dr. Claudia Bührig (Orient Dept of the German Archaeological  
Institute: DAI):
“Gadara/Umm Qais and the urban and cultural development of the  
ancient city.”

Dr. Lucinda Dirven (University of Amsterdam):
             “Subject to be defined.”
Dr. Gideon Foerster (Hebrew University):            “Bet Shean- 
Scythopolis.”Dr. Katharina Galor (Brown University):
             “Subject to be defined.”
Prof. David Kennedy (University of Western Australia):
       “Gerasa and the Decapolis. A ‘virtual island’ in northwest  
Jordan.”
Mr. Charlie March (PhD candidate at the University of London):
“From Temple to Church, the spatial aspects of religious transition.”

Dr. Gerald Mattingly (Johnson Bible College):
             “Subject to be defined.”
Dr. Ahmad al- Shami (Department of Antiquities – Amman):
“The Roman theatre of Bayt Ras/ Capitolias.”

Dr. Karel Vriezen (University of Utrecht):            “Ancient Gadara  
and its region.”Prof. Dr. Thomas M. Weber (Johannes Gutenberg- 
Universität):            “Roman Inscriptions in the Decapolis.”Prof.  
Zeev Weiss (Hebrew University):            “Subject to be defined”.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:56:06 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:56:06 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:ahlan wasahlan and etymology
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105606.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:ahlan wasahlan

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:t.milo at chello.nl
Subject:ahlan wasahlan

All the comments on the phrase /ahla-n wa sahla-n/ "welcome" so far were
lexicographic and/or syntactic as perceived solely from within the  
confines
of Classical Arabic. But etymology, when investigating the the origin  
of a
word or expression", is not confined by language or culture barriers.

In the case of Arabic, after identifying the root morphemes of an Arabic
word, and after verifying whether its meaning falls in line with that of
other words that share these root morphemes, etymology would verify if
whether the word exists in Arabic alone. That can be done by  
analysing the
root morphemes and verifying whether these can be traced to common  
Semitic
(within the constraints of the full set of established rules of  
historical
sound change). If not, the extra-Semitic source must be sought,  
identified
and a systematic analysis must be made of how the word was adapted to
Arabic, using as many analogous cases as possible. If, however,  the  
root
morphemes are shared with common Semitic, then all related words in all
other Semitic languages must be collected in order to clarify the  
meaning of
the word concerned and to understand whence and how its meaning  
evolved. The
result of such a labour is an etymology.

In the case of  /ahla-n wa wahla-n/, it should also be investigated  
how and
why its meaning interchanges in classical Arabic with /marHaba-n/, also
"welcome", and how and why /ahla-n/ and /marHabaa/ flip-flop in the  
dialects
(East-West ahla-n was sahla-n means "hello" and /marHabaa/ "welcome"  
while
North-South these meanings are reversed). In this context etymology  
should,
among other things, verify whether this phenomenon has pre-Arabic or
extra-Arabic aspects.

However, in this sense etymology of Arabic is not studied at all. At  
least
to my knowledge, since Brockelmann's "Grundriss" (1908-1913) no
comprehensive reference work, let alone an etymological dictionary  
was ever
made to deal with Arabic or even Semitic etymology. This remains a  
worrying
and curious black hole in the discipline. All more recent historical
grammars in the field , with the sole exception of Burkhart Kienast,
Historische semitische Sprachwissenschaft, have apologetic titles like
"Manual", "Einführung", "Essay", "Outline", "Introduction", "Beiträge",
"Lectures", etc. More seriously, all of them ignore or dismiss the  
massive
evidence that dialect Arabic can contribute to clarify the history of  
the
Arabic language. Only very recent essays such as one by Jonathan Owens
(Pre-diaspora Arabic, in Diachronica 22:2, 2005) and Pierre Larcher  
(Arabe
Préislamique - Arabe Coranique - Arabe Classique: Un continuum? - in:  
Die
dunklen Anfänge, Berlin 2005) start to question the position of  
Classical
Arabic as the focus and reliable starting point for Arabic historical
linguistics. Al other works uncritically assume CA is the common  
origin of
all modern forms of Arabic.

These circumstances make Arabic etymologizing an academically unsound
exercise. In comparison, no germanist in his right mind would use Hoch
Deutsch as a reliable last resource for German or Germanic etymology.
Remember, the real business of the Grimm brothers was to collect  
evidence of
historical German outside and independent of High German, not to collect
fairy tales.

The good news is: there lots of work to do in this field.

Enjoy!

Thomas Milo

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:56:30 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:56:30 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Levantine Dialect Instructor Jobs DC area
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105630.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Levantine Dialect Instructor Jobs DC area

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:mnassiri at mlsolutions.com
Subject:Levantine Dialect Instructor Jobs DC area

To whom it may concern,

We are a company located in the Washington DC metropolitan area. We  
are searching for a reliable local Levantine Arabic dialect  
instructor and therefore thought you may know of someone in our area  
you would kindly refer to us. Your help is very much appreciated.  
Thank you!

Sincerely,

Maryam Nassiri
Multilingual Solutions Inc.
Tel: 301.424.7444 ext: 12
Fax: 301.424.7331
MNassiri at MLSolutions.com
www.MLSolutions.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:56:19 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:56:19 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Plurals
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105619.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Plurals
2) Subject:Plurals
3) Subject:Plurals

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"haider bhuiyan" <haider.bhuiyan.2 at m.cc.utah.edu>
Subject:Plurals

Peace to all:

Out of the three observations, I would like to make a point about the  
observation (1).
I think here the rule is of situation/condition/position which in  
Arabic called حال , not of plural of any kind. Please note, in the  
verse 7:160 the word at question is أسباطا not أسباط shown  
in the question as plural. The word أسباطا may be analyzed this  
way: أسباط is plural of سبط that does not take ،ا،  but  
this plural noun has one. Why? Because this ،ا، is independent of  
the original plural noun أسباط and it is the ،ا، of  
situational structure of the sentence called حال . I hope I am  
making some sense.

Best regard

Haider Bhuiyan


> On the "broken plurals," my colleague, Dr. Schub, raises a few  
> probing questions:
>
>
> (1) He wonders why the plural / أسباط / is used instead of the  
> singular / سبط / in the qur'anic verse: / وقطّعناهم  
> اثنتي عشرة أسباطا أمما /, VII: 160.
>
> I'm afraid there is no violation of the grammatical code here.  We  
> are to be alerted that / أسباطا / is not a noun of  
> distinction /تمييز /; rather, it is a noun in apposition /  
> بدل / to the number / اثنتي عشرة /.   As a relevant  
> detail, may I add that even the masculine singular / سبط / would  
> not fit as a noun of distinction after the feminine composite  
> number / اثنتي عشرة /.   Exegetes and grammarians construe  
> the verse as:
>
> /                     اثنتي عشرة ، أسباطا أمما   
> [ فرقا] قطّعناهم /.
>
> Incidentally, the word / سبط / has / سُبطان / as another,  
> yet rarely used, plural of abundance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"Schub, Michael B." <Michael.Schub at trincoll.edu>
Subject:Plurals

no one should have to sacrifice the dearest of his own family, even  
for the sublimities and profundities of Arabic  
grammar....                      ms

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
3)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"Dr. M Deeb" <muhammaddeeb at gmail.com>
Subject:Plurals


The qur'anic text in my response to Dr. Schub turned out in a jumbled  
form, thus defeating the basic argument.

  (1) This was the way it was posted last time:
  ---------------------------------------------

/ اثنتي عشرة ، أسباطا أمما  [ فرقا]  
قطّعناهم/

----------------------------------------------

(2) This is how exegetes and grammarians construe the verse in question:
  ---------------------------------------------

/ قطعناهم اثنتي عشرة   ـ فِرقا ـ  أسباطا  
امما /

---------------------------------------------

(3) Much as I loathe it, a transliteration may be the next best thing  
to the Arabic script.  Here it is in the case of any electronic glitch:


[qaTTa'naahum ithnatay 'ashrata
- firaqan -,
asbaaTan 'umaman].

Appreciating your patience,

*MD

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:04:37 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:04:37 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Plurals
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110437.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Plurals

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:"Marco Hamam" <marco.hamam at poste.it>
Subject:Plurals

Hi everybody. I would like to add another element to the discussion  
of plurals in the Quran, if i am allowed.
I already knew the question of اثنتي عشرة أسباطا which,  
as far as I know, has not been solved by the mufassirin. Reading the  
Quran I had some other big problems with plurals and duals. Maybe you  
can help me deal with them and maybe this will be a starting point  
for a broader discussion.
Here I give some of the problems I remember (I wrote down the  
interested ayas on a piece of paper...it must be somewhere...):

1.
سورة الانسان ، 15 ، 16
وَيُطَافُ عَلَيْهِمْ بِئَانِيَةٍ  
مِنْ فِضَّةٍ وَأَكْوَابٍ كَانَتْ  
قَوَارِيرَا قَوَارِيرَا مِنْ  
فِضَّةٍ قَدَّرُوهَا تَقْدِيراً
/Qawaariir/ is the plural of /qaaruura/. And it is evidently a  
DIPTOTE name (in arabic mamnuu3 min aS-Sarf) like, for instance, / 
kawaabiis/ as a plural of /kaabuus/ (kawaabisu / kawaabisa) or as the  
hundrends of names with /mafaa3iil/ wazn. So why is it /qawaariiraa/  
(with a big alif) and not /qawaariira/ with no alif? You'll notice  
that later correctors have been puzzled by that and have made this  
alif as the alif after waw al-jamaa3a (a prosthetic alif with a sukun  
on it). Yet, why is an alif there?

2.
سورة الانسان ، 4
إِنَّا أَعْتَدْنَا لِلْكَفِرِينَ  
سَلسِلَا وَأَغْللًا وَسَعِيرًا
Same problem with /salaasilaa/ . Why this last alif? (Where alif  
lacks like in /kaafiriin/, /salaasilaa/, /aghlaalaa/, you have to add  
the little alif).

3.
سورة الحج ، 19
هَذَانِ خَصْمَانِ اخْتَصَمُوا فِي  
رَبِّهِمْ
Why has the dual /khasmaani/ a plural /ikhtaSamuu/ and not a dual  
verbal form (+ the pronoun -him instead of -himaa)? Why is it not / 
ikhtasamaa fii rabbihimaa/?

4.
سورة التحريم ، 4
  إِنْ تَتُوبَا إِلَى اللَّهِ فَقَدْ  
صَغَتْ قُلُوبُكُمَا
The subject of the hypotetical phrase is dual: /in tatuubaa/ . But  
then there is /Saghat quluubukumaa/. Why is it not /Saghaa  
qalbaakumaa/ given that we have two hearts?

These were the parts I could remember. I hope it will stimulate a  
discussion.
Regards,

Marco Hamam

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:04:49 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:04:49 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Job in Oman
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110449.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Job in Oman

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:Maria Persson <Maria.Persson at ling.lu.se>
Subject:Job in Oman

Dear colleagues,

I will be on a sabbatical from my teaching position in Oman next  
calendar year to concentrate on my Gulf Arabic research. Hence, my  
employer needs someone to substitute for me during that year. I love  
my job and I'm very glad to recommend it to anyone with the right  
qualifications who would like to work part time in a small language  
school with highly motivated students and a wonderful staff ;).

Maria

Job Title: Teacher of Modern Standard Arabic required for one year  
from February 08 to January 09

Description: Our institute offers a full-time course in Gulf  
colloquial and Modern Standard Arabic aimed at taking students from  
absolute beginner in the Arabic language to comfortable communicator  
in two years.  We have small classes (up to 12, usually around 6-7 or  
less) of highly motivated students and all of our teachers consider  
the teaching atmosphere to be a very positive one.  From February  
2008, we will need a Modern Standard Arabic teacher who is able to  
both teach all levels of the Al-Kitaab Series published by Georgetown  
University Press and oversee and train a native Arabic speaker in the  
teaching of MSA.   He/She will need to be able to teach in the medium  
of the Arabic language using modern interactive teaching methods.   
The period of employment will be for one year only, teaching our  
spring semester from February 2008 to June 2008; our autumn semester  
from September 2007 to January 2009 and potentially also summer  
courses in July.

For more information on this position, our institute, our courses and  
the area, please feel free to both visit our website at  
www.gapschool.net and contact us directly.

Job Title:

Teacher of Modern Standard Arabic

Location (can be general):

Buraimi, Oman (Twin city of Al Ain, United Arab Emirates)

Hours of Work:

8a.m. – 11:00 a.m. weekdays  (Sunday to Thursday). Some days would go  
until 12:30.

Salary:

Depending on qualifications and schedule, between AED51,000 and  
AED56,000 (approx $13,900 - $15,300) for the whole year.

Qualifications Needed

For a non-native Arabic speaker, a Masters or PhD in Arabic, having  
native-like fluency in at least one dialect and Modern Standard  
Arabic and experience teaching beginner and intermediate levels of  
Arabic.

For a native Arabic speaker we would accept a BA in Arabic with at  
least two years experience of teaching Arabic as a foreign language.   
Knowledge of English necessary.

Length of Commitment Required

1 year (from February 2008 to January 2009)

Contact name, address, email or phone:

Michael Clucas, P.O. Box 17213, Al-Ain, UAE.

e-mail: info at gapschoo.net

Tel.: +971-3-7551858

Fax.: +971-3-7551878

(Note: Office hours are 8a.m. – 1p.m. local time; Sunday to Thursday)



---------------------------------------------
Maria Persson, SOL
Lund University, P.O. Box 201, 221 00 Lund, Sweden


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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:05:01 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:05:01 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LIT:Needs original of Abu Nuwas qasida
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110501.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs original of Abu Nuwas qasida

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:"Vrsan Lestaric" <fursan at EUnet.yu>
Subject:Needs original of Abu Nuwas qasida

Dear friends and colleagues,

Does anybody know the original of the following Abu Nuwas' qasida:

Always I have and will
Scatter god and gold to the four winds.
When we meet, I delight in what the Book forbids.
And flee what is allowed.

(Diwan Abu Nuwas, 62, after Kennedy, p. 220)

I leafed diligently through books and encyclopedias but to no avail...

Thanks in advance,
Vrsan Lestaric

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:04:46 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:04:46 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Wants list of sites for teaching Arabic
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110446.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Wants list of sites for teaching Arabic

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:Mohamed Esa <mesa at mcdaniel.edu>
Subject:Wants list of sites for teaching Arabic

Hi:

I am wondering if anyone on the list has a good list of Internet  
websites for teaching Arabic: Vocabulary, Grammar, Culture, History,  
etc.

Any help is apprecaited.

Please send your responses to: mesa at mcdaniel.edu

Shukran,

Mohamed

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:04:31 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:04:31 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:asbaaTan response
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110431.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:asbaaTan response

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:"Dr. M Deeb" <muhammaddeeb at gmail.com>
Subject:asbaaTan response

> Why? Because this ،ا، is independent of the original plural noun  
> أسباط and
> it is the ،ا، of situational structure of the sentence called  
> حال . I hope I
> am making some sense.

*NB:*
*Writiing from Cairo, I'm using a *
*borrowed laptop, and thus faced with several **electronic  
difficulties.  At
any rate, I hope I make myself understandable. *
**
Whilst there could be merit in swimming against the tide, I don't see  
any
merit in construing /*أسباطا*/ as an accusative of condition.   
There is a
conssensus of grammatical opinion that / *أسباطا*  / is a  noun in
apposition to the accusitives in the qur'anic verse at issue, as I  
pointed
out several times in earlier posts.

On this point, please, check the following sources:

* / المعجم الوسيط / *
*/ القرآن المفهرس / *
*/ لسان لعرب /*
*    /الإتقان في علوم القرآن /*
--
M. Deeb

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:04:40 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:04:40 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Needs refs on 'spirit of Arabic'
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110440.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs refs on 'spirit of Arabic'

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:paula santillan <capraia at yahoo.com>
Subject:Needs refs on 'spirit of Arabic'

A beginning student of mine has inquired me about
books –in English- that deal with  “ru7 al-3arabiyya”,
i.e. how the root systems works, connections between
meanings and words, etymologies and curiosities in
general. she’s interested in an
anthropological/psychological approach to these issues
rather than on a grammatical one. any suggestions?

shukran

p

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:05:30 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:05:30 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First Discussion
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110530.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion (response from Mustafa)
2) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion
3) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion
4) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion
5) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion
6) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion
7) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:Mustafa Mughazy <mustafa.mughazy at wmich.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

Thanks to all of those who responded to my announcement by posting
comments on the list or by emailing me directly. We are taking all these
comments in consideration and we are seriously interested in what you
think.

Initially, I was worried that this posting might reignite the old debate
of whether colloquial dialects should be taught at all. However, ALL the
responses I got assume that students should learn both MSA and a
dialect; the question now is how and when. I think this is a major
paradigm shift that should be noted.

For considerations of space and your time, I did not include all the
details in my initial posting. I think now is a better time to clarify a
couple of points.

We do not intend to use Romanized transcription or transliteration at
all. Colloquial Arabic will be exclusively taught in the Arabic script
with minor modifications to accommodate the dialect (these modifications
are not idiosyncratic; they are used in MSA to encode things like the v,
p, and g). This way, knowledge of the writing system can easily transfer
to MSA. I completely agree that teaching ONLY colloquial in
transliteration leads to illiterate Arabic speakers; there are enough of
those already in the Arab world.

The textbook we are using for the dialect is in the Arabic script and it
includes all the MSA-Colloquial shared words and grammar points in the
Al-kitaab I, which students will start using in the second semester.
Students will start Unit 1 of Al-kitaab knowing most of the words
already. Hopefully that will speed up their acquisition of MSA.

Learning a dialect and then Fusha sounds to me like moving from simple
to complicated, which is a natural progress of learning anything;
tricycle then a bicycle, and for the very talented ones a monocycle.

For programs with significant numbers of heritage students, I think the
colloquial first approach will promote a fair/equal opportunity learning
environment. Heritage students can test out of the colloquial semester.
In the second semester, the gap between them and non-heritage students
will be less problematic.

We can all agree that studying abroad is useful when learning any
modern/living language. However, I do not think studying MSA/Classical
Arabic alone in the Middle East is a particularly productive activity.
It is no different from studying those varieties of Arabic in the US
because those students will not get immersed in MSA or Classical Arabic
(we might need a time machine for this). If students want to be immersed
in MSA/CA, I recommend the libraries of the U of Michigan, Illinois, and
Georgetown. Exposure to the culture is invaluable, but I am completely
against the assumption that students can pick up colloquial Arabic on
the street. Maybe some students are good at this, but the vast majority
needs instruction.

Finally, I looked at various medieval Arabic texts and there is quite a
bit of colloquial in them, so even students who plan to become scholars
of medieval studies still need to know colloquial. I have seen many
scholars of anthropology, political science, and sociology who spent
years studying MSA only, and ended up using interpreters when they
conducted research in the Middle East. I have no idea how government
agents use MSA to do their business.

By the way, how do you stop a car in Iraqi Arabic? The American gesture
for stopping cars looks very much like the Egyptian gesture for greeting
someone who is far (in a car); no wonder they do not stop!

Mustafa Mughazy

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:Nimat Hafez Barazangi <nhb2 at cornell.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

Although each point raised so far has its own credibility, my feeling  
is that we are basically forgetting one of the basic characteristics  
of Arabic as a "Diglossic' one, as well as the cognitive processes  
that language learners experience both in understanding and deploying  
a language. Some of us may not agree with Ferguson's argument, but my  
empirical studies of both Arab children acquiring Arabic as a first  
language and American adult students learning Arabic as a second/ 
foreign language indicate that learners need the basic grammatical  
elements in order to make sense of what they are processing before  
they are able to deploy the language.

This need was particularly evident with the American students  
learning Levantine first. They did not have a point of reference to  
compare the grammatical structure, hence they were using the grammar  
of either their first language, or other languages that they have  
learned before, in order to internalize the variations in the  
structure, especially when they were switching gender, or matching an  
adjective to a noun, etc.  Hence, they were missing both the concept  
and the application.  Also, those who were learning colloquial first,  
had difficulty relating text to sound or the written to the oral.

Perhaps we need to conduct more empirical studies that are not  
conducted by those who instruct one way or the other. If you are  
interested to read more on the latter study, consult the following  
web site:
http://www.eself-learning-arabic.cornell.edu, Check "Arabic Self- 
Learning" publications.

Best wishes,
Nimat
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
3)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:Frederic Cadora <frederic.cadora at uc.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

Consider the argument presented in the following article some 40  
years ago:

F. Cadora, The Teaching of Spoken and Written Arabic," Language  
Learning,
Vol. 22, Nos. 3 and 4 (1965), pp. 133-6

F. Cadora

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
4)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From: Fadia Hamid <fetfet at sbcglobal.net>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

This is an excellent detailed response David. The points you raise  
are valid and merit a closer look at the material available to teach  
Arabic. I teach at the High School level and the evaluations of my  
Arabic 1 students all included comments about how they wish they had  
learned more colloquial vocabulary/expressions.
I believe your point about "what is the goal of studying the  
language" is of utmost importance when deciding whether the focus  
should be on colloquial or MSA.
And yes, you are right, native speakers, and I am one, haldy ever  
speak in fusha or use literary Arabic.
Great discussion!
Fadia Hamid

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
5)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:jeremy.palmer at gmail.com
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

Discussing the issue concerning the teaching of spoken Arabic is  
useful and hopefully fruitful. As an aspiring professor of Arabic  
second language acquisition I would like to simply include my own  
intuition regarding the topic. Having spoken with many fellow  
students of Arabic, it is fairly clear that the majority of us want  
to learn Arabic to communicate in as natural a manner as possible. It  
also seems to me that the up-and-coming generation of Arabic students  
and teachers will be pushing for spoken Arabic instruction. Now that  
I have revealed an obvious bias in favor of teaching spoken Arabic,  
let me state that I hope we will all be considerate of differing  
opinions and work together to find successful curricula.

Jeremy Palmer

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
6)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:dina elzarka <dina.elzarka at uni-graz.at>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

I could not agree more with Mustafa Mughazy and David Willmsen, as  
far as colloquial first is concerned. We have used Al-Kitaab for some  
years now, that means, that we start with a little small talk in  
ammiyya using Alif Baa first, but then switch to Fusha only. But this  
is unsatisfactory,  as the little ammiyya in the beginning not quite  
takes students to the "breakthrough level" according to the European  
Language Portfolio for example, and most students also forget most of  
it during the rest of the year.

I have only tried once to go on using ammiyya and fusha in parallel  
as suggested by the authors of Al-Kitaab, but the outcome was  
disastrous (there may have been other factors responsible for that as  
well). Our students will ultimately become translators and  
interpreters, which means that we have to bring them to a reasonable  
level of proficiency in MSA within two years when they start the  
basic translation programme.

I wonder if there is a solution to the written/colloquial problem if  
you only have that little time. If anyone has a good experience  
teaching both varieties in parallel, I'd be happy to know. Any  
comments and suggestions welcome.

Kind regards,
Dina El Zarka

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
7)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:"John Joseph Colangelo" <yaacolangelo at hotmail.com>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

Dear Sir,

You quoted Qafiseh saying:

He points out that students who begin their
study of Arabic with exposure to the vernacular are generally more
motivated and successful in their study than are those who begin with
fusha.

I beg to disagree. I would like to see any of your students or non  
native professors compare his or her Arabic to people such as Hamza  
Yousef (from the Zaytuna Institute), Dr. Umar Abdullah (from the  
Nawawee Institute of Chicago) or Dr. Timothy Winters (a scholar at  
the University of Cambridge). I would really like to know what you  
base your conclusions on. The people I have quoted are just a few of  
the many students who chose the study of Fusha first and then  
acquired a usage of a dialect “on the way.” I have listened to  
orientalists worried about dialect and not only do they have a  
foreign accent in dialect but their classical Arabic is to say the  
least not up to par (See Alberto Fernández).

As a possible solution I already asked the Arab colleague why  
students aren´t taught in classical Arabic in the classrooms. I still  
haven´t received an answer. Maybe it´s because the professors who  
spent their two to three years in Egypt didn´t worry about learning  
to speak Arabic per se and now cannot even if they tried.  Dialect is  
not something that needs serious classroom study (unless you are off  
to Iraq and you want the people to think you are from the Anbar  
region. Don´t worry, they’ll know you aren´t.) But joking aside, I  
also stated that it took me a year to understand well one of the  
Arabic dialects and by the second year I was using it when I deemed  
it necessary to do so: At the souq and in taxis!

Then you say, Professor, that well educated native speakers cannot  
speak proper classical Arabic ( or vowelize it). All I can say is  
that I know many Arabs, many (even among Moroccans) who can speak  
with nominal declensions not to mention the fact that I have also  
seen many speakers on Al-Jazeera (of course with the exception of  
Mohammed Hussein Haikal who is so fond of writing in Egyptian dialect  
something I personally detest) who decline their nouns and use the  
right vowels for their verbs really well. And to the disgust of the  
enemies of the Arabic language things are improving thanks to the  
mass media revolution in the Arab world.

You then say, I quote:

I have worked for years with Arabic interpreters and teachers of  
translation and interpreting whose very professional success hinges  
upon their proficiency in composing and declaiming in fusha.

Well, if the issue is being a court interpreter for Moroccan  
immigrants who like mixing Bereber with Moroccan dialect then knowing  
dialect can be useful. However, if you are talking about conference  
interpreters then you must have observed the wrong people in the  
wrong place. I know several Arabic interpreters from countries such  
as Morocco, Lebanon and Egypt and they use correct vowelization when  
speaking. Not one of them has used dialect in the booth and if they  
did, they would never be hired again.

Again, I have lived in several parts of the Arab world for over seven  
years and Classical Arabic is not limited to radio or television. It  
is used in the classroom, in the mosque ( I haven´t been to a  
Christian Arab church but I would imagine they also use fusha), in  
speeches, at dinners, between Arabs from different countries. And if  
you are going to teach your students Egyptian and then to discuss  
linguistic issues in Egyptian then your students are going to have  
their professional horizons severly limited, limited to where  
Egyptian dialect is used. And their inablity to use classical Arabic  
in a classroom will make them functional illiterates.

Finally, let me just say that there are many dialects and wasting  
peoples time on the acquisition of the Egyptian dialect will prevent  
them from learning one of the richest languages in the world. I  
previously mentioned in another letter that I am not against teaching  
dialect. I believe, however, students after acquiring a solid  
foundation in classical Arabic can be given an introductory course on  
several dialects such as Moroccan, Egyptian, Syrian and Gulf.

And before I go when I go to the Arab world people ask me what part  
of the Arab world I am from and then when I speak to them in a bit of  
dialect they ask me what part  of the Arabian pensinsula I am from  
just like when I speak Spanish they ask me what part of Spain I come  
from.

J.J.C.

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:14 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:14 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102714.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First
2) Subject:Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:yaacolangelo at hotmail.com
Subject:Colloquial First

Prof. Dilworth,
Here is a link to a page in Arabic for translators and professors of  
Arabic. It would be interesting if we could continue the discussion  
there.
http://www.atida.org/forums/showthread.php?p=5970&posted=1#post5970
John


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:"David Wilmsen" <dww22 at georgetown.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First

I did not quote Qafisheh (who happened to be a professor of mine) but
simply summarized his results.  Any dispute with his results must,
therefore, be with him and not with me, even though his results
support my point.

As for my experience with interpreters, I was for twelve years the
director of Arabic and Translation Studies in what is now called the
School of Professional Studies at the American University in Cairo
(and for two more years responsible for that programme and others as
an associate dean in the School). The programme offered professional
certification in translation and simultaneous and consecutive
interpreting in Arabic, French, and English and for many years
conducted a translation and interpreting service that provided
interpreting for almost any kind of conference as can be held, up to
and including peace talks in Sharm El Sheikh and sessions of the
League of Arab States.  As the director and a teacher in the
programme, I have observed Lebanese, Palestinian, Egyptian, and
interpreters from other parts of the Arab world at work in the booth
and in the classroom (the classroom observations being not limited to
my department at AUC but also at al-Azhar and Cairo University as well
as at Notre Dame University in Lebanon).  Graduates of my programme
(some of whom I trained personally and whose careers I sponsored) are
highly placed interpreters at international organizations like the
IMF, the World Bank, the United Nations, and the International
Aviation Authority, as well as the high profile media outlets like the
BBC, al-Arabiyya, and al-Jazeera.

My observations of interpreters in practice are presented in "One
Global Standard or Multiple Regional Standards?:  A problem in the
practice and  pedagogy of Arabic interpreting," in Collados Aís,
Ángela, Manuela Fernández Sánchez, Macarena Pradas Macías,  Concepción
Sánchez Adam, Elisabeth Stévaux (eds). La evaluación de la calidad en
interpretación: docencia y profesión. Granada: Comares. 2003,  69—78.

They are also summarized in "What is Communicative Arabic?" in Wahba,
Kassem, Zeinab Taha, and Lisbeth England, Handbook for Arabic Language
Teaching Professionals in the 21st Century. Mahwa, NJ:  Erlbaum. 2006,
125—138, where I make the argument for beginning the teaching of
non-native students of Arabic with a dialect.

On the other hand, I have not had a great deal of experience with
court interpreting, or any other type of community interpreting,
except for some involvement with the training of community
interpreters among the African refugee communities residing in Cairo,
which programme was run out of the department of Forced Migration and
Refugee Studies at AUC, and for which I served mostly as an advisor
and an occasional lecturer.

I think this permits me to speak with some authority on the practice
of Arabic interpreting.

Now that that is out of the way, allow me to reiterate that those
objecting to beginning the teaching of Arabic as a foreign language
with an introduction to a vernacular by expressing the fear that
students will thereby never learn to contend with the higher registers
of the Arabic literary heritage or the intricacies of the Arabic
grammatical tradition are missing the point of what is being proposed
here.

What is being proposed is a sequence of Arabic teaching to more or
less normal college students who may or may not go on to higher levels
of Arabic study by first introducing them to the spoken vernacular
before giving them thorough instruction in the writing system. (We
hope that some of them will become so fascinated by it all that they
will go on to become scholars or otherwise specialists in the field.)

We cannot build a language teaching programme using sterling examples
of non-native speakers who have become highly proficient in
specialized aspects of declaimed formal Arabic  – who also seem to
have acquired their command of fusha for specific purposes such as
religion – as its model and ultimate goals. Such an enterprise would
be doomed to failure. These remarkable individuals gain their
impressive skill through sheer determination and personal effort;
results such as they have achieved are well beyond the scope of what a
university programme can offer.  It would be nice if we could, but we
cannot.  I would venture to guess that such people will have acquired
their impressive skill with fusha regardless of the sequence in which
they learned the vernacular (if they have learned it at all) either
before or afterwards.  What is more, to cite them as examples is
perhaps a bit disingenuous, considering that some such learners
probably have no interest in learning a vernacular, preferring to
focus their attention on the more formal registers of the liturgical
language of Islam.

Most of our students do not share such interests.

Objections naming such individuals as exemplars needlessly complicate
the debate.  The question is in fact much simpler:  in what order are
we as Arabic teachers to approach the teaching of a dialect?  In
answering that, we must take the needs, interests, desires and
proclivities of our students in mind, just as we should be considering
the results of the latest thinking in the field of language learning.
And we should be paying some attention to how our students are going
to be using their language skills in their professional lives and what
employers wish from them.  Most are not going to become scholars or
converts to Islam, but many of them will engage with speakers of
Arabic and with the Arabic press and media throughout their careers
(at least we hope that they will, and they share that hope).


I am not claiming that educated speakers of Arabic cannot declaim in
fusha; they can, and the evidence for this is multitude.  Nor am I
arguing that students should not learn fusha. They certainly should;
indeed I advocate in Wahba, Taha, and England for a five-year
undergraduate major in Arabic to provide students the time they need
to delve deeply into Arabic with a full four years dedicated to fusha
(they need more than five years, but university administrations are
not likely to concede them even that). What I and others like me are
arguing is that it is more logical to begin teaching Arabic with a
dialect (it hardly matters which one) before going on to an intensive
study of fusha.  As Parkinson pointed out in this thread, students who
have first learned to perform conversationally in an Arabic vernacular
will have fewer conceptual difficulties contending with the
complexities of fusha, having first learned analogous (if simpler)
concepts in the dialect.

We should of course be aiming to enable them to discourse at the
higher registers of Arabic either spoken or written as a fair number
of reasonably well-educated native speakers of the language can do.
Whether they ever become highly proficient at declaiming
extemporaneously in fusha with complete flawless vowelling is another
matter, and should really be of only small concern to us as teachers.

The vernaculars and fusha are aspects of a single language.  My
contention remains that any true Arabist must be proficient in both
fusha and at least one vernacular; to be deficient in either one is to
miss half of the rich culture of Arabic.

David Wilmsen

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  19 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:27 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:27 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:'Spirit of Arabic' refs
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102727.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:'Spirit of Arabic' refs

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:"jolanda guardi (jolanda.guardi)" <jolanda.guardi at unimi.it>
Subject:'Spirit of Arabic' refs

Two titles that deal with this subject (in French) are:

A. Kilito, La langue d'Adam
M. Chelli, La parole arabe, Sindbad Paris

Hope this hepls
Jolanda Guardi

L'ESSERE PIU' INUTILE DELLA TERRA E' IL TOPO DI BIBLIOTECA , Gaoshi  
(periodo Tang)

Jolanda Guardi
Lingua e traduzione araba
Università di Milano
Facoltà di Scienze Politiche
Dipartimento di Lingue e Culture Contemporanee
studio 4007
Piazza Indro Montanelli, 1
20099 Sesto san Giovanni (MI)
tel. 02 50321645
Portable 349 8310324
jolanda.guardi at unimi.it

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  19 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:21 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:21 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Needs info on Arabic study in Syria ASAP
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102721.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs info on Arabic study in Syria ASAP

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:: "J Murgida" <jmurg at ttlc.net>
Subject:Needs info on Arabic study in Syria ASAP

[please respond directly to Jackie at e-mail above]

Dear Colleagues,
If you can provide feedback on experience with the two institutions  
below,
please respond directly to
Paul Coltrin [pcolt at mindspring.com]
**but as soon as possible [he's leaving on 24 June]**

This student is on the wait list for summer Arabic study in Damascus (at
Institut Français du Proche-Orient). If that doesn't work out, he must
choose between
(1) Arabic Language Center at the University of
Damascus(http://www.arabicindamascus.edu.sy/English.html)   On the above
website, go to "Standard Arabic Regular Courses Program (SARC)."
(2) Damascus Language School for Standard
Arabic(http://www.standard-arabic.com/)

Any advice you can provide before he departs would be greatly  
appreciated.
Best regards,
Jackie

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:29 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:29 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:more info on 'ahar root
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102729.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:more info on 'ahar root

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:moderator
Subject:more info on 'ahar root

The poster of the message on the root 'ahar was asked to specify what  
actual Arabic consonants were involved, since it is not always clear  
from the transliteration.
The answer is:
The ' refers to an initial hamza
The h is a soft h.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  19 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:25 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:25 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:lists of sites for teaching Arabic responses
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102725.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:lists of sites for teaching Arabic response
2) Subject:lists of sites for teaching Arabic response

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From: dalal abayazied <dalalied at yahoo.com>
Subject:lists of sites for teaching Arabic response

Try the following link
http://www.yemenlinks.com/Arabic_Resources.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From: "Haroon Shirwani" <arabictutor at hotmail.com>
Subject:lists of sites for teaching Arabic response

Dear Mohamed

Here are the best sites I have come across:

Vocabulary (and some grammar) - http://www.languageguide.org/arabic/
Culture and history - http://arabworld.nitle.org/main_menu.php

Best wishes,
Haroon

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:19 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:19 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Needs Arabic Learners and Native Speakers for
 research project
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102719.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs Arabic Learners and Native Speakers for research  
project (UofMaryland)

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:Rajaa Aquil <raquil at umd.edu>
Subject:Needs Arabic Learners and Native Speakers for research  
project (UofMaryland)

                                                                         
        *Take a language test and earn _$80!_*
*                                                                        
     Do you speak Arabic?*
                                                                         
                    (reading and writing NOT needed)**
Language study seeks the following kinds of speakers to participate  
in a research project:
*1.      *Learner of Arabic, at the 200 level (Intermediate and or  
Advanced)
      (Must be native speaker of English)
*        or*
*2.      *Someone who speaks Arabic at home
*        or*
*3.      *Native speaker of Arabic (Must know English)

    ·        Must be available for 4 -5 hours at a time convenient  
for you.
    ·        Participants will take a listening and speaking test in  
Arabic
    ·        You will receive $80 upon completion of the test.

This is an officially approved study being conducted by the School of  
Languages, Literatures, and Cultures, University of Maryland, College  
Park.  Any information collected will be kept confidential.  *The  
test is administered on site: University of Maryland*

*Interested?*  Call 301-405-0976 and leave a message with your name  
and phone number or email address where we can reach you. Or email us  
at: Arabictest at umd.edu <mailto:Arabictest at umd.edu>

**Rajaa Aquil, Ph.D.,
SLLC, University of Maryland

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  19 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:26 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:26 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:A female vice president would be a catastrophe
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101826.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:A female vice president would be a catastrophe

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:Michael.Schub at trincoll.edu
Subject:A female vice president would be a catastrophe

Hi Dil and Friends,
       Hypothetically, if a woman were  elected vice President in  
2008, will she be called  /naa'ibu  r-ra'iis[at]i/  or

/naa'batu  r-ra'iis[at]i/ ??  The crux here is that the second  
expression may be interpreted to mean 'the

President's calamity/disaster/catastrophe.'  Thus, explains George  
Jirdaq (Al-Majalla #1390, Oct., 2006.

p. 15 mid), that female Lebanese legislators are called  /an-naa'ibu   
fulaana/  [using the masculine form].

      There are literally hundreds of synonyms for 'calamity/ 
catastrophe,' etc. in Arabic, and some 138 of them

[including  /naa'ibatun/] are listed by Rafael Nakhla, S.J. in his   
*Gharaa'ibu  l-Lughati  l-`Arabiyyati,*

Beirut, no date.

       Best wishes from an undisclosed location, welding polysemy  
onto politics,

                                                                         
                                    Mike Schub

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:06 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:06 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:'Spirit of Arabic' summary
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101806.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:'Spirit of Arabic' summary

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:paula santillan <capraia at yahoo.com>
Subject:'Spirit of Arabic' summary

first of all, thanks Jolnada.

////////

A few days ago I submitted a message asking about
references on the ?spirit of Arabic?. I?d like to
share the results I?ve obtained from a couple of
members, as well as those that I was eventually able
to recall.

1) The semantics of form in Arabic, in the mirror of
European languages. Amsterdam ; Philadelphia : J.
Benjamins, c1987. (Studies in language companion
series; v.15), by David Justice

2) Shouby, E. 1951 ?The influence of the Arabic
language on the psychology of the Arabs?, Middle East
Journal, 5: 284-302.

3) Antaki, I. 1989 La cultura de los árabes, México:
Siglo Veintiuno. (there´s a chapter devoted to the
language).

4) Tapiéro, N. (1986) Quelques relations fondamentales
entre les stuctures psycho-sociologiques et les
structures linguisitiques des arabes. (Sorry, no
further details of it).


-paula

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:11 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:11 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Needs model Lesson Plans for beginning Arabic
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101811.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:"Samia Kholoussi" <skholoussi at comcast.net>
Subject:Needs model Lesson Plans for beginning Arabic

Hi,

I would appreciate it if somebody would supply me with models of  
lesson plans for classes of beginners of Arabic.

Thanks,
Samia Kholoussi
Associate Professor
Ain Shams University, Cairo

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:14 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:14 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Wants Teaching Assistant Position
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101814.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Wants Teaching Assistant Position

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:"Scott Brown" <sgbrow at gmail.com>
Subject:Wants Teaching Assistant Position

Hello-
I am a fifth-year student of Arabic that will enter graduate school  
in the
Fall of '08. I was a teaching assistant for one year at the College of
William and Mary my senior year of undergraduate studies. I am  
looking to
find a full-time/part-time Teaching Assistant/Teaching Fellow  
position in
Arabic/Middle Eastern Studies. I am willing to relocate. Please e- 
mail me if
you know of any availability: Scott Brown @ sgbrow at gmail.com

Shukran,
Scott

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:08 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:08 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Needs Syrian dialect book
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101808.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs Syrian dialect book

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:"omid ghaemmaghami" <omid.ghaemmaghami at utoronto.ca>
Subject:Needs Syrian dialect book

Dear All:

Is there a book (preferably with an audio component) that you would  
strongly
recommend to someone wishing to learn the Syrian dialect?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

Best Wishes,
omid
Omid Ghaemmaghami
PhD Student, University of Toronto
omid.ghaemmaghami at utoronto.ca

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:19 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:19 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Lists of Arabic Teaching sites
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101819.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Lists of Arabic Teaching sites

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From: "tons" <tons at aucegypt.edu>
Subject:Lists of Arabic Teaching sites

You can check the following
http://www.ali.aucegypt.edu/MowagaaArabia.php
Abbas Al-Tonsi

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:16 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:16 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:GEN:Alan Kaye
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101816.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Alan Kaye

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:Uri Horesh <urih at mail.utexas.edu>
Subject:Alan Kaye

[from LINGUIST]

Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:38:42
From: Jim Eisenbraun < jeisenbraun at eisenbrauns.com >
Subject: Sad news: Alan S. Kaye

We are deeply saddened to report the news, from Jeremy Kaye, that his
father, Alan S. Kaye, widely known for his work in Semitic linguistics,
passed away on May 31 due to complications of cancer. He was  
diagnosed with
bone cancer only one month earlier, on May 1, in the United Arab  
Emirates,
where he was on research leave. The cancer had already metastasized and
affected many of his organs. Jeremy brought Alan home to Fullerton on  
May
22.

A link to the Cal Fullerton web site provides much more information:

http://campusapps.fullerton.edu/news/inside/2007/kaye.html


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:kassem_wahba at yahoo.com
Subject:Alan Kaye

Dear Dil,
I am writing this brief note to let you know some sad news which I  
heared today.Alan Kaye has passed away on the May 31st from Cancer  
which was diagnosed on May 1st. I got am e-mail message today from  
Judith Gasparro.
He was such a good friend with me and many other people around in the  
Arabic field.
Regards
Kassem Wahba


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Sat Jun 23 21:25:16 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:25:16 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First
Message-ID: <SAT.23.JUN.2007.152516.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Sat 23 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:"Ola Moshref" <omoshref at gmail.com>
Subject:Colloquial First

The argument that teaching the spoken follows the natural order by
which native children learn their language is logical and attractive.  
It is
necessary to remember, however, the misery Arab children have in  
learning
the Standard variety of their own language. This is because the learning
does not provide a smooth shift between the two varieties. To  
consider this
fact is one key to resolving the conflict of how to teach Arabic as one
entity to foreigners.

If colloquial is taught first, how can we integrate the skills of  
reading,
writing, listening, and speaking necessary for effective language  
learning?
There is of course written material in colloquial ranging from  
advertisments
to poetry. However, there are problems like the absence of conventional
spelling for colloquial. We will train students to write in colloquial,
although when Arab children learn to write, they write Standard.  
Hence, we
will not be following the natural order in this respect. Since early
learining impacts later development, one question will be which  
variety is
more tolerent of interference from the other. The answer might very  
well be
different from one skill to the other.

The problem is that we are still partitioning the language. We have  
not yet
discovered the formula which describes its mutiple facets in simple
associations, and therefore be able to design a programme which  
progresses
not from colloquial to standard or vice vesa, but across both along  
higher
levels of acquisition.

Ola Moshref
TA - Linguisitics
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  23 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Sat Jun 23 21:25:18 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:25:18 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:GEN:Alan Kaye
Message-ID: <SAT.23.JUN.2007.152518.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Sat 23 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Alan Kaye

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:"John Joseph Colangelo" <yaacolangelo at hotmail.com>
Subject:Alan Kaye

I am deeply sorry for your loss.

John


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  23 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Sat Jun 23 21:25:19 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:25:19 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Syrian Arabic suggestions
Message-ID: <SAT.23.JUN.2007.152519.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Sat 23 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
2) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
3) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
4) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
5) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
6) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
7) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From: Martine Pétrod <martine.petrod at webspeed.dk>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Hi Omid,

You may want to take a look at:

Syrian Colloquial Arabic, a Functional Course by Mary-Jane Liddicoat,  
Richard Lennane and Dr Iman Abdul Rahim, 1998 ISBN 0-646-36958-X
Syrian Colloquial Arabic, a Functional Course is a 400-page  
illustrated and fully indexed textbook, accompanied by 180 minutes of  
authentic recorded conversations.

It can be dowloaded free of charge from:
http://syrianarabic.com/

Martine Pétrod

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:"vuksan zecevic" <times12 at gmail.com>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Visit www.syrianarabic.com There you'll find what you are looking  
for,  the
textbook and audio material. It is completely free of charge.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
3)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From: "Jeremy Palmer" <jeremy.palmer at gmail.com>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

syrianarabic.com

Jeremy

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
4)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:"Allon Uhlmann" <uhlmanna at umsl.edu>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Omid,

This might work for you.
http://syrianarabic.com/downloads.html

Salamaat,
A.

Allon J. Uhlmann
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
University of Missouri - St. Louis
http://www.umsl.edu/~uhlmanna/

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
5)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:a elsherif <alarish5 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Hi Omid
There is a fantastic webbook you can download from   
www.syrianarabic.com  and it is free.
Good luck
ahmed elshareif.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
6)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:Raven at em.uni-frankfurt.de
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Of course, what you need you will find at http://syrianarabic.com/
Downloadable, with MP3.

Best wishes,
Wim Raven,

Dr. Wim Raven, Centrum für Nah- und Mittelost-Studien, Philipps  
Universität
Marburg
Post per Adresse: Semitistik, Wilhelm-Röpke-Straße 6F, 35032 Marburg
Besuchadresse: Wilhelm-Röpke-Straße 6D, Zimmer 713, Telefon:  
06421-2821305

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
7)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:"Jibreel Delgado" <jibreel.delgado at gmail.com>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Dear Omid,

I would highly recommend the book, Syrian Colloquial Arabic by Mary-Jane
Liddicoat, Richard Lennane, and Iman Abdul Rahim witch also comes with
audio.

Hope this helps.

Jibreel Delgado
MA student, Applied Linguistics
University of South Florida

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  23 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:18 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:18 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Two Leeds Univ. jobs
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143318.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
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            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Two Leeds Univ. jobs

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:eric at comp.leeds.ac.uk
Subject:Two Leeds Univ. jobs

UNIVERSITY OF LEEDS, School of Modern Languages and Cultures

Dept of Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies

2 academic posts; deadline: 29 June 2007
     Teaching Fellow in Arabic and Islamic Studies (Job Ref: 316048)
     Lecturer in Middle Eastern Politics (Job Ref: 316047)

Further details: http://www.leeds.ac.uk/about/jobs/ -> Academic

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:14 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:14 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143314.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First
2) Subject:Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:Mustafa Mughazy <mustafa.mughazy at wmich.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First

Arabic is a diglossic language. This sentence can be found in at least
two of any three randomly picked papers on Arabic linguistics. Diglossia
is a fact, so we can exclude claims such as "colloquial dialects are not
Arabic" and "colloquial dialects do not have grammars", as simply
uninformed. It is very sad that digossia, which has dominated the field
for 50 years, has not yet found its place in the Arabic curriculum.

If we put ideologies aside, we can spare ourselves debating claims such
as "only pure Classical Arabic is worthy of teaching", "foreigners are
a3aajim who will never learn Arabic", "foreigners learn Arabic to read
the Quran and Classical texts", and "let's keep Orientalist foreigners
in the dark by teaching them something they cannot use". Debating such
unfortunate claims is an exercise in futility.

If we do a bit of research, we can also save ourselves the trouble of
refuting false claims such as "MSA is understood by all Arabs", "only
MSA is used in writing", and "colloquial Arabic is slang". We should not
take pride in claiming Arabic to be one of the most difficult languages
on earth. I once heard a teacher say "Arabic is so difficult even its
native speakers do not speak it well". That simply discourages students
to the point of giving up.

If we take the time to talk to our students, we will realize that they
sign up for Arabic classes for all sorts of reasons. Some take Arabic
because they have a language requirement and all Spanish classes are
full, some think it is cool, many want to connect with their heritage,
and most think it will enhance their career potentials. Our duty is to
provide Arabic the way it is, not the way we wish it was. Let's not
impose our ideologies on our students or judge them for not being little
Sibawayhs.

By the way, I do not know about Sibawayh, but I can assume that Ibn
Jinni spoke and learned a dialect first. Even Amir Al-shu3araa Ahmad
Shawqi who wrote poetry about fusHa (ana al-baHru .) always spoke in
colloquial Egyptian in the parliament. If you do not believe me, you can
see transcripts of his educated formal speeches for yourself.

Here is the logic: Arabic is a diglossic language; therefore, teaching
Arabic is teaching a diglossic language.

There are at least three ways to go about teaching diglossic Arabic: (a)
teach MSA first and then a dialect, (b) teach MSA and a dialect
simultaneously, and (c) teach colloquial first then MSA. The first two
options have been around for quite some time, and many people have
developed their curricula accordingly.

The discussion thus far has been quite productive and some very
important issues were raised:

  "If colloquial is taught first, how can we integrate the skills of
reading, writing, listening, and speaking necessary for effective
language learning?"

Integrating skills is a very attractive idea and it works well for ESL,
but I doubt we should expect that in Arabic. We have to integrate tasks
rather than language, so students can read in MSA and discuss in
Colloquial, listen to the news/documentaries in MSA and talk in the
Colloquial, or watch in the Colloquial and write in MSA. That is what
native speakers of Arabic do.

There are conventions for writing in colloquial; that is why we can read
it. The differences between MSA and Colloquial are minimal (the
pronunciation of five letters in the case of Egyptian). That is not more
complicated than the variations in MSA spelling across Arab countries.

Now the question I have been trying to avoid: which dialect to teach?
Any program can teach any dialect if they have teaching materials and
instructors who speak that dialect. There is no scientific support for
claiming that some dialects are "closer" to FusHa.

This is a very loaded question because it implies that instructors who
speak "popular" dialects will have better chances of employment. This is
a MYTH. We will always teach MSA and any dialect can be taught. We now
see increasing interest in Iraqi, Yemeni and Moroccan Arabic. Questions
like these are not helpful because they invoke nationalist and personal
biases toward or against dialects, or more specifically toward the
speakers of those dialects. Again, let's not allow ideological biases to
determine what our students learn.

Mustafa Mughazy

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:Abdulkafi Albirini <aalbirini at yahoo.com>
Subject:Colloquial First

This is an interesting discussion.

I believe there is something missing in the argument
for the colloquial first, which concerns students'
interests. My experience is that most students are not
learning Arabic just to speak it. In fact, many of
them want to have a comprehensive understanding of the
language and be able to use the language to read
different literary and scholarly texts as well as to
read the news. Moreover, the majority of the students
prefer to have a "language" that is understood across
the Arab world before they try to command a particular
dialect.

Thus, if we are to furnish our students with a better
and more comprehensive understanding of the Arabic
language (including the various skills of the
language), then we have to focus on the Standard
dialect first.

I recognize that there are some students who are
interested in commanding one dialect, who are a
minority among our students (or maybe the students
that I have taught thus far). For these students, we
can create courses that focus on these dialects.

Best

Abdulkafi Albirini
Coordinator of the Arabic Language Program at UIUC

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:24 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:24 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:another Syrian Arabic suggestion
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143324.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:"John Joseph Colangelo" <yaacolangelo at hotmail.com>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

This link is to a book I hve seen in the market written by Prof.  
Francisco Moscoso (Universidad de Cadiz): It´s a course in Moroccan  
dialect.
http://www.priceminister.es/offer/buy/21569158/Curso-De-Arabe- 
Marroqui-Dialogos-Gramatica-Ejercicios-Glosari-O-Libro.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:21 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:21 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Three FSI Arabic teaching jobs, Dept. of State
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143321.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
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            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Three FSI Arabic teaching jobs, Dept. of State

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From: "Bernhardt, James E" <BernhardtJE at state.gov>
Subject:Three FSI Arabic teaching jobs, Dept. of State

Colleagues,  FSI is pleased to announce three jobs for entry-level  
Arabic language teachers!  For those with a love of teaching but with  
little or no experience, this may be the right opportunity!

The following job vacancy is open to all U.S. citizens and Non- 
Citizens as allowed by appropriations and statute.
If interested, you can access a full copy of the vacancy announcement  
on the internet at:
http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=59091084&AVSDM=2007% 
2D06%2D20+15%3A28%3A02&Logo=0&pg=3&jts=NOT%20iraq&jbf513=NOT% 
20REE**&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&jbf574=ST00&lid=316&sort=rv&vw=d&brd=3876&ss=0 
&caller=/a9st00.asp
Applicants are encouraged to apply online.
Series/Grade:  GG-1712-05/07
Title:    Language Instructor (Arabic)
Office:  FSI/SLS/NEA
Announcement:  FSI 07-20
Opening:  06/20/2007
Closing:  07/12/2007
Number of Openings: 3

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007
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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:19 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:19 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Wants advice about Arabic study in Yemen
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143319.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Wants advice about Arabic study in Yemen

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:"Shoaib Memon" <majnoonx at gmail.com>
Subject:Wants advice about Arabic study in Yemen

Hello,

I am planning on studying in Yemen for a few months, starting  
sometime  in
August, my current level is intermediate.

I was wondering if any members of the listserv can share any experiences
that they've had studying in yemen, specifically about the quality of  
the
institutes there(especially, the two that I am aware of, CALES and  
SIAL).
Also, apart from the institutes, if anyone knows any good private
tutors/teachers there for arabic, as well as calligraphy, I'd be very
grateful for that information.

Thank you,
shoaib

majnoonx at gmail.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:16 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:16 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:AD:Books from Gerlach available
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143316.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Books from Gerlach available

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:antiqua at gerlach-books.de
Subject:Books from Gerlach available

We have a few single copies of mostly out of print antiquarian books  
on Middle Eastern studies.
This offer is valid until 6 July 2007 only. Prepayment required.
We sell on a first come, first served basis.

best regards from Berlin,

Kai-H. Gerlach


(1)
1 Set Only
Bibliotheca Islamica - Biographic Dictionary of Salahaddin Halil Ibn  
Aibak As-Safadi (Arabic text edition): 14 volumes
Publisher: Steiner Verlag, Stuttgart (German Orient Institute Beirut)
Publication date: 1949 - 1983
MOST VOLUMES OUT OF PRINT
*** Special price: EUR 1100 ***
Including FREE surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Plus European VAT if applicable.

(2)
1 Set Only
Bibliotheca Islamica - Die Chronik des Ibn Ijas: Bada'i' az-zuhur fi  
waqa'i' ad-duhur (Arabic text edition): 7 volumes
Publisher: Steiner Verlag, Stuttgart (German Orient Institute Beirut)
Publication date: 1945 - 1975
MOST VOLUMES OUT OF PRINT
*** Special price: EUR 725 ***
Including FREE surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Plus European VAT if applicable.

(3)
1 Set Only
Documents on British Foreign Policy (Focus on the Middle East  
politics): 14 volumes
Publisher: Her Majesty's Stationery Office (HMSO) / The Stationery  
Office (TSO)
Publication date: 1928 - 1976
OUT OF PRINT
*** Special price: EUR 1600 ***
Including FREE surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Plus European VAT if applicable.


(4)
1 Set Only
The Arab-Israeli Conflict in Israeli History, Textbooks 1948-2000: 5  
volumes
Editor: John Norton Moore
Publisher: Princeton University Press
Publication date: 1974 - 1991
OUT OF PRINT
*** Special price: EUR 475 ***
Including FREE surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Plus European VAT if applicable.


(5)
1 Set Only
Brockelmann - Geschichte der Arabischen Litteratur : 5 volumes
Author: Carl Brockelmann
Publisher: Brill
Publication date: 1937 - 1949
Current list price: EUR 620
*** Our price: EUR 450 ***
Including FREE surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Plus European VAT if applicable.

*********************************************
KAI-HENNING GERLACH - BOOKS & ONLINE
Middle Eastern & Islamic Studies

D-10711 Berlin, Germany
Heilbronner Straße 10
Telefon +49 30 3249441
Telefax +49 30 3235667
e-mail khg at gerlach-books.de
www.gerlach-books.de

USt/VAT No. DE 185 061 373
Verkehrs-Nr. 24795 (BAG)
EAN 4330931247950

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:22 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:22 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:GEN:problem with Arabic in XP
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143322.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:problem with Arabic in XP

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:Jan Hoogland <j.hoogland at let.ru.nl>
Subject:problem with Arabic in XP

Dear colleagues,

I’m having a problem with reusing an old database containing dictionary
data.

The database is in Borland Interbase format and was produced between  
1997 en
2003 with Arabic enabled Windows 98.

Since the dictionary now needs to be updated, I installed the old  
database
programme and opened the database.

To my disappointment the Arabic in the database is shown as garbage.

Then I installed Windows 98 under MS Virtual PC, but with the same  
problem:
the Arabic data in the database can not be recognized as Arabic.  
However,
this time it’s different garbage (but still garbage).

XP-garbage:

To give you just one example, the word kitâb (kaf-kasra-ta-alif-ba)  
is shown
as: #oECE

And it seems the number of Arabic characters is reduced to just a few:
#oECaoOuUIi (see example 1 below)

Win98/Virtual PC garbage:

Since I can’t transfer files easily from the Virtual PC environment  
it is a
bit more complicated to show an example.

The word kitâb (kaf-kasra-ta-alif-ba) is shown as: shin-?-zay-“-lam, or
maybe in reverse order it’s not clear if it’s RTL or LTR (so there are
Arabic characters but garbage shows up as well).

Does anyone have any suggestions how to solve this problem?

The ultimate solution would be a PC running with only Arabic enabled  
Win98
of course, but I hoped to avoid this solution since Win98 is no longer
supported by our technical people and it would be more difficult to use
remote desktop etc.

Thanks for your help.

Jan

===

Example 1 from the database in XP:

#oECE <aoOuEaU> boek [Ca#oECE Caao#oIooO] bijbel, het boek der boeken,
Schrift; [Ca#oECE CaaoEia] (=> aoEia); [Ca#oECE Ca#oNia] {het Heilige  
Boek,
de koran}; [ICAo Yi Ca#oECEo Caao#oIooOo] in de bijbel staan; [EoaC aoa
Ca#oECEo Caao#oIooOo] voorlezen uit de bijbel; [ao#uOoU aoa Ca#oECEo
Caao#oIooOo] bijbeltekst; [#oECE Ooioo# \ IoiooI] een boeiend/goed boek;
[#oECE Caaao] {Gods boek, de koran}; [#oECE OoEuIo] kookboek; [#oEoE  
NoIiOE
\ aCIoNE \ NCAoIE] goedkope/zeldzame/populaire titels; [


Jan (Abu Samir) Hoogland
Dept. of Arabic, University of Nijmegen
POB 9103, 6500 HD Nijmegen, the Netherlands
phone (0)24-3612641, residence: (0)24-3550199, mobile:(0)653652861
mobile in Morocco/GSM au Maroc: +-212-(0)79 146312
fax: (0)24-3500719
mail:  <mailto:j.hoogland at let.ru.nl> j.hoogland at let.ru.nl
personal website:  <http://www.janhoogland.com> www.janhoogland.com
Arabic dictionary project website:  <http://www.let.ru.nl/wba>
www.let.ru.nl/wba
website Nederlands Instituut in Marokko:  <http://www.ru.nl/NIMAR>
www.ru.nl/NIMAR

weblog: http://janhoogland.blogspot.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 19:15:10 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:15:10 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:GEN:Getting Arabic in the messages
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.131510.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
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            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Getting Arabic in the messages
2) Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:moderator
Subject:Getting Arabic in the messages

I will summarize the responses I got about which messages were  
readable (so you can see the problem), and then I will post below the  
messages that contain suggestions.  Below that I will post my own  
suggestion for how you can read the Arabic if it is just not coming  
through for you.

Got Arabic:
1 person: ONLY in text message #1
1 person: ONLY in text message #5
3 people: ALL but text message #5
1 person: NONE had good Arabic
2 people: #1, #3, #4 OK, #2, #5 Bad


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:hopie11 at yahoo.com
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

Hello!

FYI on the test messages:

When they first arrived, I couldn't read the Arabic in the original  
message or in any of the test messages, but when I changed the  
encoding on my own machine (to Unicode), I had no trouble with them.  
ah, technology.

Hope Fitzgerald

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
3)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:"Allon Uhlmann" <uhlmanna at umsl.edu>
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

I don't know if it helps, but when I read my email through Outlook  
exchange,
I also get ?????????????  When I use my actual outlook program, I get  
the
original text.  With Eudora I can get the actual text in the preview  
window,
but gibberish when I open the message, however, usually when I send  
it to
the browser I can then get the original (by selecting View ->  
Encoding ->
Arabic for windows).

I hope this helps.

A.

Allon J. Uhlmann
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
University of Missouri - St. Louis
http://www.umsl.edu/~uhlmanna/

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
4)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:a elsherif <alarish5 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

Hi,
TO READ ARABIC TEXT  YOU NEED TO DO " INCODING "
  WHILE YOU ARE ON THE TEXT..CLICK ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE MOUSE ,  
THEN CLICK ON "ENCODING".. CLICK ON ON ARABIC .. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE  
TO READ ARABIC .

PLEASE SEE THIS INFORMATION FROM http://languages.londonmet.ac.uk/ 
community/wordprocessing/arabic/index.htm

I HOPE THIS HELP
ELSHAREIF
Enabling Arabic Support in Windows XP
You will need Administrative privileges to enable the use of Arabic  
on your computer. This will not be a problem for your home computer,  
but will require the intervention of your network manager in an  
educational institution.
Go to Start then Settings then Control Panel and double-click on  
Regional and Language Options.

When the "Regional and Language Options" dialogue box appears, select  
the "Languages" tab at the top of the box and then select "Install  
files for complex script and right-to-left languages". If the files  
necessary for Arabic are not already installed, you will be asked to  
insert the "Windows XP" CD. which will allow you to install the  
missing files ? simply follow the instructions which will come up  
automatically. When the necessary changes have been made and you have  
finished with the CD, press the "Details ..." button. A new dialogue  
box will appear entitled "Text Services and Input Languages".


Now you need to add Arabic as an input language before your computer  
will accept typing in Arabic.
In the "Text Services and Input Languages" box, press the "Add"  
button. A box appears entitled "Add Input Language". Choose "Arabic"  
for "Input Language", it does not greatly matter which country you  
choose, the most common choice is "Saudi Arabia". Choose "Arabic  
(101) for "Keyboard Layout / IME" and press OK.

Back in the "Text Services and Input Languages" box, you need to  
specify where you want your Language Bar to be, which will allow you  
to switch between typing in English and Arabic. Click on Language  
Bar ... and a dialogue box will appear entitled "Language Bar Settings".

Select "Show the Language bar on the desktop" and click OK. Click OK  
to exit all the dialogue boxes you have opened.
The "Language Bar" will appear somewhere on your desktop and y ou can  
move it to where you find it most convenient (probably the System  
Tray located in the bottom right hand corner of your screen.) When  
you want to input Arabic in a document, you simply need to click on  
EN (for English) to bring up the option AR (for Arabic.)
Whichever you select, the keyboard will insert the characters of that  
language.


If the Language Bar option in the Text Services and Input Languages  
dialogue box, referred to above, is not available, click the Advanced  
tab at the top and ensure that the option marked Turn off advanced  
text services is not checked.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
5)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:"George N. Hallak, Boston" <GnhBos at aol.com>
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

Hi Samar,

The symbols may mean that you do not have the Arabic font on your PC.
Try this trick, hit "Reply", if you still do not see the Arabic text,
highlight
the symbols and select a font from your font list on your PC.

Let me know if it works. Shukran!


Best Regards,

George N. Hallak

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
6)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:"Mahmoud Elsayess" <melsayess at socal.rr.com>
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

A major causal factor in the receipt of illegible messages over the  
Internet is the adoption of incompatible standards by a multitude of  
system developers and manufacturers.  Depending on their respective  
locations, these system vendors adhere to standards set by either ISO  
(International Organization for Standardization) or ANSI (American  
National Standards Institute).  While the latter focuses on the U.S.,  
the former is adhered to in other countries.  Both organizations  
oversee the creation, promulgation and use of norms and guidelines  
that directly impact businesses in nearly every sector.
Both organizations are dedicated to enhancing competitiveness by  
promoting and facilitating voluntary consensus standards and  
conformity assessment systems, and safeguarding their integrity.   
Unfortunately, however, certain standards set by each respective  
organization may not be compatible.  This issue has occurred in  
software and systems used in negotiating the Internet. The problem  
that has resulted is that in the sending of foreign languages on the  
Internet over all types of systems and disciplines the chances of  
incompatibility are significant, and will often result in the  
receiving of useless, illegible messages or data.
Additionally, for similar reasons spam filter rules may alter and  
make messages unreadable.

Thank you

Mahmoud Elsayess

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
7)
Date: 01 Jun 2007
From:"Dilworth Parkinson" <dil at byu.edu>
Subject:Suggestions for Getting Arabic in the messages

OK, here is my suggestion.  It is a lot of work, but if you just  
aren't getting Arabic, and there is an occasional message that you  
would really like to see, this should work for everybody.

1) open a browser (I suggest firefox) and go to any Arabic language  
site (like Aljazeera) and make sure that you can get Arabic in  
general.  If you can't, stop now, because I can't help you.  If you  
can, go on.

2) using that browser, log on to listserv.byu.edu.  If you have done  
this before, it will probably remember you.  If you have set your  
password and it doesn't remember you, you will have to log in with  
your password.  If you have never logged in or set your password  
before, then you will need to follow the instructions I sent before  
for doing so.  For your convenience, I have copied them below.

3) Click on Subscribers Corner

4) Click on Arabic-L.  This will take you to a page where you can  
change your subscription details.  You don't want to do that right  
now, but you have to come here to get to the next page.

5) Click on Back To Arabic-L Page.  This will take you to a list of  
months where the messages are archived.

6) Click, for example, on May 2007.  This gives you a list of the  
messages that were posted in May, but unordered.

7) To get the messages to show up in date order, click on the second  
button from the left on the button menu at the top; it is the one  
with the numbers 1 and 2 on little 'piece of paper/calendar icons'.

8) Once the messages are in date order, scroll down to the bottom of  
the list to see the Messages that were posted on May 30th.  Click on  
Test Message #1.  This shows the message in a text format, but the  
Arabic should be readable.  If it is too small to read, you can make  
the font bigger (on the mac it is command-+ but it might be some  
other command on a PC or a different browser.

9) There are two buttons in the menu bar now with jkl on them.  If  
you click on the left one of those, the text will change to a nicer  
and more readable font (although this varies from browser to  
browser).  However, it can often also destroy some of the formatting  
(like getting rid of returns, etc.)

10) If, as is the case with this message, the original was posted in  
an html format, there will be a little thing to click on at the  
bottom of the message that says [text/html] but underlined or blue or  
whatever to draw your attention.  If you click on that, a new window  
will open and that will allow you to see the message more or less as  
originally formatted.

11) The arrows on the left two buttons will take you forward and back  
through the messages from this page if you like.

12) You can try the other buttons, but the one on the very right gets  
rid of your cookie, which means that you will HAve to log in again  
the next time you come to this site.

This would probably not be something you would want to do every day,  
but if you are desperate to see a message in Arabic, this method  
should work for you.



HERE ARE THE PROMISED INSTRUCTIONS THAT WERE POSTED EARLIER FOR  
GETTING SET UP ON THE LISTSERV.BYU.EDU WEBSITE:


As I mentioned in an earlier message, Arabic-L has been migrated to  
updated listserv software.  This adds an archive at Arabic-L itself  
(besides the archive maintained by Linguist), and it also allows you  
more control over your own subscription.  Here is how it works.

1. Determine what e-mail address you are signed up to Arabic-L  
under.  (This is important, because the other steps won't work unless  
you have the right version of your address.)  If you can't figure it  
out, e-mail me directly at dil at byu.edu.

2. Using a browser, log on to listserv.byu.edu.

3. Click on Get a LISTESERV password for this server.  This will  
bring you to a page where you will type in the e-mail address  
mentioned in #1 above, and then set a password, which you need to  
remember.

4. Go back to the listserv.byu.edu page and log on with your e-mail  
address and password.

5. Click on Subscriber's Corner.

6. A list of the things you are subscribed to will appear (probably  
just Arabic-L).

7. Click on Arabic-L to view and change your subscriber options.

8. On this page you can
	a. change the e-mail address you want to be subscribed from, by  
typing in the new address in the box (over the old one)
	b. change your subscription type: regular just posts the messages as  
I send them out, digest combines them into one long message and sends  
them out once a day, and index (I think) sends you the headers only.
	c. change the mail header style
	d. change the acknowledgements: noack means you won't receive  
confirmation that your message has been sent, and ack means the  
opposite.  If you leave Receive copy of own postings checked or  
unchecked, probably nothing will change.
	e. Miscellaneous: nomail temporarily stops sending you arabic-l  
messages (while you are on vacation, for example).  When you set your  
own local server to send out a message stating that you are away on  
vacation, I get that message for every message I send out.  When you  
multiply that by the number of subscribers on vacation at any one  
time, you might realize why I get hundreds of unwanted messages  
daily.  So, before you go on vacation, if you are going to set your  
own server to send out that message, it would also be nice if you set  
your Arabic-L subscription to nomail.  If I get annoyed enough I will  
do it for you.
	f. if you click Address concealed from REVIEW listing, then  
subscribers who request to see the list of subscribers to Arabic-L  
will not be given access to your address.  If you leave it unchecked,  
subscribers who want to see a list of other subscribers to Arabic-L  
will get a list that will include your address.  Non-subscribers will  
not have access to this list in any case.  If you send a message to  
Arabic-L, however, that in effect gives me permission to put your  
address on the message, so clicking this option doesn't conceal your  
address in all circumstances, only in the case of a subscriber  
sending a REVIEW command to the listserv and receiving back a list of  
subscribers.

9. Before you leave this window, you must click Update Options for  
the new selections to go into effect.

10. If you want to unsubscribe to Arabic-L, simply click on the  
button Leave Arabic-L

Most of the options on the subscriber options page have an underline,  
and if you click on that word you will be given more information  
about that option, although not always all the information you might  
want.

In some lists like Arabic-L the moderator simply sends the message on  
to subscribers without altering it. However, in Arabic-L, the message  
is copied into a template that includes the date, the topic, and  
which groups messages on the same subject together.  To accomplish  
this, I have to 'reject' the original message so it doesn't get  
passed on, and then send the revised format to the list.  If you get  
a rejection notice and then the message comes through anyway, that is  
probably the reason.
Remember, however, that the list is now set to automatically reject  
anything with attachments, so those won't get through to me at all.   
If you must send an attachment, send it directly to me, but it would  
be better to copy the contents of the attachment into the message  
itself, which is what I have to do before I post it.


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 20:29:13 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:29:13 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Graduate Translation Program--U. of Illinois
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.142913.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Graduate Translation Program--U. of Illinois

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 June 2007
From:<mbooth at uiuc.edu>
Subject:Graduate Translation Program--U. of Illinois

I cannot claim that the University of Illinois has a PhD in  
translation studies, but we have just been approved to start a  
Translation Studies Program, initially with a graduate certificate  
and hopefully expanding from there. I teach a well-received literary  
translation course and I hope that with our expanding Arabic-centric  
expertise, we'll be able to offer exciting possibilities to graduate  
students interested in this field.

My heart is in literary translation! and I welcome inquiries.

best to all,

Marilyn Booth

Director, Program in South Asian and Middle Eastern Studies

Associate Professor, Comparative and World Literature


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 June 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 20:29:21 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:29:21 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:William and Mary Job
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.142921.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:William and Mary Job

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 June 2007
From:"John Eisele" <jceise at wm.edu>
Subject:William and Mary Job

The Department of Modern Languages and Literatures of The College of  
William and Mary is looking to fill a position of full-time  
instructor in Arabic language beginning Fall Semester 2007. Initial  
appointment is for one year, with the possibility for renewal up to  
five years. Responsibilities include three courses per semester at  
the elementary and/or intermediate levels as well as administration  
of drill sessions. Fluency in Modern Standard Arabic is required and  
native or near native fluency in an Arabic dialect is desirable.  
Applicants should have native, or near native fluency in MSA, one  
dialect and English.  MA or higher in Arabic language study, or  
literature, or an allied field is required.  Preference will be given  
to candidates with successful teaching records in Arabic. Salary is  
commensurate with qualifications and teaching experience. An  
application letter, current curriculum vitae, and three letters of  
reference can be sent electronically via email to the following  
address:  jceise at wm.edu. Hard copies of the above should be sent to:  
Arabic Search Committee, c/o Ms Shelia Eubank,  Dept. of Modern  
Languages and Literatures, College of William and Mary,  Box 8795,  
Williamsburg VA 23187-8795. The College of William and Mary is an  
Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. Women and minorities  
are encouraged to apply. Review of applications will begin on June 21  
and continue until the position is filled.

John Eisele
Dept of Modern Languages & Literatures
College of William & Mary
Williamsburg VA 23185
fax: 757-221-3137

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 June 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 20:29:34 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:29:34 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.142934.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 June 2007
From:Mustafa Mughazy <mustafa.mughazy at wmich.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First

The Arabic program at Western Michigan University is undergoing a  
comprehensive overhaul of its language curriculum.

Starting fall 07, the first semester will exclusively teach a  
colloquial dialect in the Arabic script. The second semester will  
continue the dialect and introduce MSA as a written language. Second  
and third year courses will focus mainly on MSA. Study abroad  
programs will focus mainly on the dialects. The objective is for  
students to develop a level of dual proficiency where they can  
interact with native speakers in a ?natural? way (a dialect) and use  
MSA as a language for reading and writing.

This change is based on students? responses to a questionnaire  
comparing their experience learning Arabic to other languages, such  
as Spanish and Chinese. Many students expressed their frustration  
that the Arabic they learn in first year courses is ?not very  
useful?, as they cannot use it with native speakers and it is very  
different from authentic MSA including children?s books. For one  
thing, native speakers? responses to students? attempts at MSA  
include uncomfortable laughter, English discourse, and super fusha.  
Also, most authentic materials in MSA do not include language about  
one?s family, self introductions, or small talk. Students expressed  
their frustration that MSA is ?disconnected? from Arab culture, as it  
does not help with popular culture (songs, movies, TV shows, etc.).  
Compared to Spanish and Chinese first year courses, Arabic was ?as  
dry as a dead language pretending to be cool?.

We expect language transfer from the colloquial to MSA in writing and  
mixing MSA and the colloquial in speech. Isn?t that what native  
speakers of Arabic do? Even college students do that with English and  
their regional/ethnic dialects.

On the positive side, we feel that more students will continue  
studying Arabic beyond their college language requirement because of  
the self-rewarding nature of learning a dialect.

Feedback from similar experiments, ideas, and comments are most  
welcome and highly appreciated!

Thank you

Mustafa Mughazy

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 June 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 20:29:26 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:29:26 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Is there an online Placement test?
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.142926.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Is there an online Placement test?

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 June 2007
From:
Subject:Is there an online Placement test?

hi,

      is there any on-line Arabic placement test?  thank  
you.                           Mike Schub


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 June 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun  1 20:29:35 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:29:35 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:GEN:List matters
Message-ID: <FRI.1.JUN.2007.142935.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 01 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:List Matters

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 01 June 2007
From:moderator
Subject:List matters

I will be out of town for a week or so, but have decided to try doing  
Arabic-L from my laptop with the browser interface.  It is a little  
complicated, but hopefully it will work.  The problem is that  
messages that come through fine when I download them to my mail  
program end up with garbage in them on the part of the browser I have  
to use.  Therefore, if you send messages during the next while or so  
with Arabic in them, I may not be able to post them for a couple of  
weeks.  I cannot, for example, post the currently pending messages  
about plurals for that reason.

Dil


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  01 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:28 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:28 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Negative Reactions to Colloquial First
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114728.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Negative Reactions to Colloquial First
2) Subject:Negative Reactions to Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"Schub, Michael B." <Michael.Schub at trincoll.edu>
Subject:Negative Reactions to Colloquial First

hi,

       One underlying academic question is 'how low can we  
go?' [limbo having been officially been damned {darned?} to limbo].

       In about 1929(?) the Turks replaced their modified Arabic  
script with a latinized script [similar to English] because the  
former represented the phonology and morphology of Turkish as  
pathetically and as inefficiently as it does all Arabic dialects.   
Thus almost all academic textbooks worthy of the name for dialectal  
Arabic are written in phonetic [again, similar to English] script.

      The four years I taught Arabic at Yale (on a different planet),  
only FUSHA was taught, WITHOUT ANY ORAL REQUIREMENT.  Those students  
who immediately went on to Middlebury (one of them is now Professor  
of Middle Eastern Studies at MIT) reported that they were a bit lost  
for about two weeks, and subsequently they became the mentors of many  
advanced students who were clueless as to the case endings (al- 
i`raab  <  root  `\ `  r  b  \  = THAT WHICH MAKES ARABIC ARABIC) and  
were unable to look up an Arabic word in an Ar--Eng dictionary!

      Courses in pure MSA (modern FUSHA) tend to turn off students  
who are intellectually lazy and merely want to PARTY.  They have no  
desire to do academically worthwhile homework--yet some of us must  
accomodate them to have enrollment in our classes.

       Sibawayhi is spinning in his grave like an atomic dreidel.

                                  Ma`a  ssalaama,

                                                                         
             Mike Schub

P.S.  according to this proposed plan, your Arabic students will be  
totally ILLITERATE in Arabic after one entire year of university  
instruction

       Ibn Jinni is spinning in his grave like an atomic dreidel.

                                                                         
                                    ms

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"John Joseph Colangelo" <yaacolangelo at hotmail.com>
Subject:Negative Reactions to Colloquial First

I completely disagree with this. I find students who worry about  
learning

dialect completely incompetent in learning fusha and thus understanding

written material. I have colleagues who have spent years in Arab  
countries

worrying about dialect not understand classical material at all!  My

personal experience was learning MSA as well as classical Arabic  
(religious

and literary texts) through classical Arabic and then, when living  
there in

situ, learning the dialect rather quickly. And if Arabs respond in  
English

it is because they want to practise their English at the expense of the

American students. You have to be a good speaker for them to answer in

Arabic. Maybe instead of giving the classes in English, you should  
give the

classes in Arabic? Maybe when sending the students to an Arab  
country, you

should send them to a program where it is forbidden to use English. Mind

you, I do believe that dialect should be taught but after acquiring  
solid

foundations in classical Arabic not at the beginning. Which dialect  
are you

going to teach? Why that dialect? Maybe students learning that  
dialect wont

understand other dialects. Maybe using that dialect in other  
countries will

earn the annoyance of natives in that country. There are many factors to

consider.


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:30 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:30 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Positive to Neutral Reactions to Colloquial First
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114730.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Positive to Neutral Reactions to Colloquial First
2) Subject:Positive to Neutral Reactions to Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"Waheed Samy" <wasamy at umich.edu>
Subject:

Dear Mustafa,

This idea of starting students with colloquial Arabic during the first

semester makes sense.  You point out several concerns that some of us  
share.

Students have complained that they have not been sufficiently warned  
about

the situation they find themselves in when all they know is MSA.  Your

experiment should be a very interesting one.  I would personally be very

interested to learn what you discover as you implement this new plan:  
what

gains, what losses, and what difficulties.

Waheed Samy



------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--

2)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"Waheed Samy" <wasamy at umich.edu>
Subject:Positive to Neutral Reactions to Colloquial First
At BYU for several years now we have been including colloquial with  
fusha during the first two years of instruction.  We spend the first  
month to two months working on the script and colloquial, so they get  
something of a grounding in basic survival level speaking, and then  
we start the fusha materials and continue with both, about half the  
time on each.  We make something of an effort to keep the two  
straight, partly by emphasizing survival speaking in colloquial and  
more formal topics and reading in fusha, but we don't obsess over  
it.  We have over 150 students a year start out Arabic 101, and far  
less than half of these make it to third year and any hope of real  
fluency.  We have not felt that we have harmed our good students at  
all with this method (several have gone on to become CASA students  
and excellent Arabists), but we also felt a moral duty to do  
something for those students who were only going to be with us for a  
semester or two or three.  What this does for them is gives them the  
ability to do something fun and useful with the small amount of  
Arabic they know, and if they go to the Middle East, it gives them  
survival skills useful for taking taxis, buying things in the market,  
getting and giving directions and the like.  It prepares all of the  
students for the 'real world' where the reality is that the two  
varieties exist not only side by side, but all wrapped up in each  
other, with much modern literature filled to the brim with  
colloquial, and with even newspapers and other news sources having  
far more colloquial than many care to admit.  There is something  
archaic and even otherworldly about a purist insistence on fusha only  
for our students, when no one insists on such a thing for native  
speakers, and when the language they are going to encounter has  
little to do with that purist ideal.

Another thing I would like to point out is that when we do colloquial  
we don't explain much (although we do some), we just do a lot of  
talking about very basic things.  This means that when we reach  
things like the idaafa, or noun adjective phrases, etc. in Fusha, we  
can just say: you know, like we say such and such in colloquial, and  
they are already quite accustomed to it and it doesn't seem strange  
at all to them.  It helps them get from the theoretical to the  
practical in a very short time.

Except for the first couple of weeks, we do colloquial entirely in  
script.  We make no effort whatsoever to 'represent' the language  
with the script in any kind of complete way.  The students end up  
learning that sometimes colloquial words are written more like they  
sound, and sometimes more like they are written in fusha, and that as  
long as they know that it is colloquial and they know the word, it  
shouldn't bother them.  This has turned into a major advantage to the  
students once they become advanced and have to deal with the wide  
variety of methods native speakers use for writing the colloquial.

Dil Parkinson

dil at byu.edu


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:50:25 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:50:25 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:AATA Newsletter out
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.115025.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:AATA Newsletter out

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:moderator
Subject:AATA Newsletter out

The AATA electronic newsletter has just come out. AATA is worried  
that some who should be on the mailing list are not, so if you have  
not received your copy and you think you should have, contact:
Karin Ryding  (rydingk at georgetown.edu) and copy John Eisele  
(jceise at wm.edu) so that they can make sure to be up to date with the  
mailing list
.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:16 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:16 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Needs refs on Arabic transcription systems
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114716.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs refs on Arabic transcription systems

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:Aissa.Abderrahman at Colorado.EDU
Subject:Needs refs on Arabic transcription systems

Dear colleagues:

I have a graduate student who is doing a research on Arabic  
transcription in/via western letters and symbols. Any references,  
books will help her a great deal

Baaaraka Allahu feekum,

Thanks

AA

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:20 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:20 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:More info and queries on Translation Programs
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114720.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:New York Translation Program Query
2) Subject:A European program

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"Rita Zihenni" <ritazihenni at gmail.com>
Subject:New York City or On-line Translation Program Query

Hello,

I am really interested in a graduate translation program. Howver, i  
live in

new york, and i was wondering if there is atranslation program in the  
new

york area or is it possible to get a degree online.

Thank you

Rita Zihenni

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"David Wilmsen" <dww22 at georgetown.edu>
Subject:A European program

Another European programme.

David Wilmsen

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Reine Meylaerts <Reine.MEYLAERTS at arts.kuleuven.be>

Date: 07-Jun-2007 05:13

Subject: [Fwd: [itit] MA / PhD in Translation and Intercultural Studies]

Please note that second-round applications are now possible for the

  Tarragona MA/PhD program in Translation and Intercultural Studies.

  This is a research-training program only. It will teach you how to

  write a good PhD thesis. It will not teach you how to translate.

  The program is taught in English and is about 50% in distance mode.

  The staff and courses are brilliant (well, we might be biased) but the

  entry requirements are draconian, especially with regard to proof of

  your previous studies.

  These are the same PhD courses as we have been giving since 2003. The

  only thing that has changed is the name: they are now called Masters

  courses.

  More information:

  http://isg.urv.es/publicity/doctorate/index.html


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:13 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:13 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:AD:Gerlach Books discount on Enc. of Quran
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114713.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Gerlach Books discount on Enc. of Quran

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:eq at gerlach-books.de
Subject:Gerlach Books discount on Enc. of Quran

We would like to remind you that our special offer will end on  
Friday, 15th June 2007.

Please find below the details of our special offer again:
More than 20% discount for Brill's Encyclopaedia of the Quran (6 vols).

*****************************************************************
Encyclopaedia of the Quran, 6 vols set
EUR 1200 (instead of list price EUR 1512)
Plus EUR 40 for surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Prepayment required
Offer valid until June 15th, 2007 only.
*****************************************************************
KAI-HENNING GERLACH - BOOKS & ONLINE
Middle Eastern & Islamic Studies

D-10711 Berlin, Germany
Heilbronner Stra?e 10
Telefon +49 30 3249441
Telefax +49 30 3235667
e-mail khg at gerlach-books.de
www.gerlach-books.de

USt/VAT No. DE 185 061 373
Verkehrs-Nr. 24795 (BAG)
EAN 4330931247950

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dil at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun  7 17:47:25 2007
From: dil at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:47:25 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:On Line Placement Test Responses
Message-ID: <THU.7.JUN.2007.114725.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 07 June 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:On Line Placement Test Response
2) Subject:On Line Placement Test Response

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"raram" <raram at umich.edu>
Subject:On Line Placement Test Response

Check with Center for Applied Linguistics in Washington.

Raji Rammuny

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
1)
Date: 07 June 2007
From:"kamal19" <kamal19 at aucegypt.edu>
Subject:On Line Placement Test Response

Dear all,

Yes, the Arabic Language Institute (ALI) at the American University  
in Cairo (AUC) uploaded and activated its online placement test a  
month ago. ALI students can now take the test on line when they  
receive their acceptance letter. On other words, once a student  
receives his/her acceptance letter, s/he receives an automatic  
generated email to give him/her the instruction of how do the test  
and the account information. The test consists on reading, listening  
and writing. you may have a look at the instructions and a sample of  
the test if you go to

http://alitest.aucegypt.edu/aliplacementtest/

Please don't hesitate to email me if you have any question.

Sincerely,

Kamal  AlEkhnawy

Head of Computer-Assisted Language Learning (CALL) Unit

Arabic Language Institute (ALI)

The American University in Cairo (AUC)

Mobile: +2 010 5420209

Tel. office: +2 02 797-5039

Business Fax: +2 02 795-7565

Email: kamal19 at aucegypt.edu

Business Website: www.aucegypt.edu/ali

Personal website: www.kamalalekhnawy.com

Post Mail:

113 Kasr El-Aini street-11511

B.O. Box 2511

Cario, Egypt

Room number 363

Main  building

From"zeinab Taha" zeintaha at aucegypt.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  07 June 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:42 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:42 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Arabic Plays for Students
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105542.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Arabic Plays for Students

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From: "Haroon Shirwani" <arabictutor at hotmail.com>
Subject:Arabic Plays for Students

First of all, many thanks to those kind people who replied with  
suggestions for poems for our declamation contest. In the end we  
chose Ana `Usfura by Anonymous, Talasim (that poem by Ilya Abu Madi  
about the chap who doesn't know whether he's coming or going), Al- 
Wilada fi mudun lam tulad by Bayyati and a few snatches of Nizar  
Qabbani, including Risala min taht al-ma'.

Now we are thinking of putting on a short Arabic play. Any  
suggestions? It would need to be doable for the students performing  
it and enjoyable (or, at least, interesting) for the friends,  
relatives and members of staff who are coming to see it.

Best wishes,
Haroon

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007
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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:37 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:37 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Arguments for Colloquial First
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105537.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Arguments for Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"David Wilmsen" <dww22 at georgetown.edu>
Subject:Arguments for Colloquial First

The twin notions that students who wish to learn a vernacular variety
of Arabic are lazy or incapable of learning to read and write Arabic
are preposterous.  Has either proposition ever been tested
objectively? In fact the second has been by Qafisheh, the results of
which he reported to the 6th ACTFL annual meeting, Atlanta, Georgia,
1972 in a paper entitled  "From Gulf Arabic into Modern Standard
Arabic:  A pilot study."  He points out that students who begin their
study of Arabic with exposure to the vernacular are generally more
motivated and successful in their study than are those who begin with
fusha.  (Thirty-five  years ago and we are still debating the issue!)

That students are purely lazy and simply wish to party is a novel
argument (at least to me) in the ongoing debate about how to solve the
problem of dialect in university programmes.  I do not wish to imply
that students are not interested in partying, but to say that they are
lazy is entirely contrary to the facts (at least at  Arizona, Yarmouk,
Michigan, Georgetown, and the American University in Cairo, where I
have experience as either a student of Arabic or a teacher or a
director of an Arabic programme).  Those of my current students at GU
who are taking both fusha and Egyptian Arabic are carrying a combined
credit-hour load of nine hours of Arabic over and above their other
credits. For that reason alone, they cannot be called lazy in the
usual sense of the word.  What is more, those with the interest to
acquire some proficiency in both varieties of the language are
by-and-large a serious bunch, fascinated by all aspects of the
language, within the normal range of interest and capailities, and
itching to learn as much as they can about both.  Most of those who
are not now studying a vernacular, intend to do.  Most are also
enormously frustrated  with the practice of teaching them to contend
with fusha before they are given a systematic treatment of the
vernacular.  It is irresponsible for us as their instructors and
programme administrators to deny them this insofar as it is within our
abilities to do otherwise.  Indeed, I rather think it is we who are
lazy and not our students.  We simply do not wish to expend the effort
to produce engaging teaching materials or to learn to use them (which
might imply learning to speak Arabic the way native speakers of the
language do).

What is more, objections predicated upon the laziness of students, or
their inability to acquire proficiency in nominal declensions once or
if they become proficient in a vernacular, or the fear of betraying
the scholarly tradition of the study of the glorious Arabic literary
heritage ignore the reasons given by Mughazy for implementing a
programme that introduces students to vernacular Arabic first as much
as they ignore the social reality of Arabic in its natural
environment.  How many native speakers of Arabic, even well educated
ones, can decline nouns flawlessly?  And among those who can, how many
do? (In anecdotal support of this, I just watched a guest on an
al-jazeera talk show attempting to speak with nominal declensions with
horribly solecistic results).

I have worked for years with Arabic interpreters and teachers of
translation and interpreting whose very professional success hinges
upon their proficiency in composing and declaiming in fusha.  The fact
of the matter is that despite their very advanced professional
proficiency in that variety, they spend most of their time in the
vernacular, even in their professional pursuits.  They conduct almost
all of their discourse respecting the fields and techniques,
terminology and texts of translation and interpreting; concerning the
advising and teaching of students of translation and interpreting
(along with the teaching itself); and certainly all of the daily
office procedures and operations of an academic department or a
translation office in vernacular Arabic. In more than a decade of
observing Arabic interpreters at work, I only once witnessed an
interpreter performing in the booth while declining all of his nouns,
to the great admiration of his colleagues.  Most of his colleagues
never bothered, or, as is perhaps more likely, are not capable of
doing so in the first place.

Why should we teach our students to speak Arabic in a way native
speakers do not?  Well, if our goal is to produce government spokesmen
whose sole skill is declaiming in fusha over the Arabic airways - the
way the programmes in the former Soviet republics do - or scholars who
can parse ancient texts without ever leaving their wood-panelled
offices, then the exercise is worthwhile.  While those may be our
goals (they are not mine), they certainly are not the goals of most of
our students, serious and lazy.

To teach Arabic as a dead literary language in order to produce
graduates who can decline Arabic nouns flawlessly but who cannot speak
a word of it seems counterproductive in the extreme and it neither
serves the interests of students nor of their potential employers
after graduation.  What is more, it is contrary to current trends in
language teaching, wherein students are taught to engage their
language first by using it as a medium for meeting immediate needs and
providing basic information about themselves, their histories, and
their interests.  It would laughable if it were not so common, to
encourage students do this this in fusha with, as Campbell points out
(in a 1986 essay entitled "The Modern Arabic Course ? A Challenge."
that appeared in the International Review of Applied Linguistics in
Language Teaching), all the enthusiasm of "a high school play
rehearsal where confused but courageous youths try to make light
banter of Richard II." is to teach students to do something that no
native speaker of Arabic does.  The alternative, to teach them all
about the higher registers of Arabic, and then to launch them into the
Arab world (those lucky enough to get there), where they are to get by
as best they can, learning a vernacular if they are so disposed to do
so, is rather like teaching them to fly before they learn to walk.

Most of our students, even those who become really good with their
language, are not going into work in the academy, and they are not
going to spend their professional lives investigating ancient
manuscripts, as exciting as that work can be.  What is more, most of
students will probably study no more than two years of language, just
enough to satisfy a graduation requirement (as do most college
students of language).  Any of those who spend all of their time with
fusha will be incapable of contending with classical texts too.  (And
why the assumption that teaching students to contend with classical
texts is an unqualified good for University Arabic programmes?  Surely
there are other worthwhile scholarly pursuits that one might pursue
with his Arabic!).  The interests of both are better served teaching
them real Arabic speech along with reading and writing more or less in
that order.

I think it possible to teach students enough vernacular Arabic in the
space of one or two terms as to enable them then to move into the
study of fusha using the vernacular as a classroom medium, as is the
practice in some parts of the Arabaphone world, and indeed may be the
experience of many many in their first encounter with formal learning
of the Arabic writing system, as they will probably attend quranic
classes in a local mosque presided over by a kindly grandfather who
instructs his charges in the language of the hearth and home.  In case
you think I am engaging in stereotyping, permit me to counter that I
used to see this in practice every day on my way home from work,
walking through the neighborhood of Zeitoun in Cairo.  Or, don't take
my word for it.  Tune in to Dream TV and watch Ahmad Amer expounding
upon tajwiid verse-by-verse in fine, good-humoured Egyptian colloquial
Arabic.

My contention has been borne out to my own satisfaction in the past
year, in which I took the best of my students from no functional
proficiency in Egyptian vernacular to mid intermediate inside of one
or two semesters, the best of them, certainly not lazy, in one
semester.  I believe that all of them would now be capable of
following a fusha class using the vernacular as the medium (and
indeed, I would occasionally conduct discussions of the differences
between fusha and 3aameyya in the vernacular).

To begin Arabic teaching with a vernacular would be to reproduce in
the classroom the native speaker experience. And it would solve the
perennial problem of how to begin teaching first-year fusha using
Arabic as a medium.

To the specious counter argument "which vernacular should we teach?",
my reply is whatever vernacular of which a department has native
speakers, whatever vernacular for which there is a large demand (for
instance Iraqi, just now), or by default Cairene.  As we all know,
Cairene is understood by anyone who has a television.  Our students
may not immediately upon arrival understand the local vernacular, but
the locals will understand them - once they recover from their
surprise at hearing an obvious foreigner speaking Egyptian Arabic. It
does not take much time to begin understanding a new vernacular once
the student has mastered one. This happened to me once in Morocco: at
first utterance my speech was not understood, as my interlocutors
expected me to address them in French, Spanish, or perhaps English;
when I repeated, they could understand easily and in fact they would
laugh because to them I sounded like Adel Imam.  I had a bit more of a
problem understanding them; but after about a week, I had learned most
of the dialect differences in the functional vocabulary of the
Marakesh vernacular and we all got along splendidly.  More recently, I
was travelling in Jordan and the Gulf; when people heard my Egyptian
accent, they assumed that I was indeed Egyptian, even though I don't
look it.  When I said I was, they believed it (once in Jordan, someone
thought I was Circassian).  Noone got annoyed at hearing someone who
obviously was not from the locale speaking another variety of the
language.

Where do we find the teachers?  That is what everyone is asking these
days.  We could find dozens upon dozens of hugely talented teachers if
we got over our institutional bias toward PhDs.  I personally know a
score or more of brilliant teachers possessing Master's degrees in
teaching Arabic as a foreign language and long years of experience who
would come west under almost any condition.  But they are competing
with ABDs and PhD holders.

--  
David Wilmsen, PhD, Arabic language and linguistics
Visiting Associate Professor of Arabic
Dept of Arabic and Islamic Studies
Georgetown University

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:56 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:56 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:National University Arabic Studies Survey
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105556.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:National University Arabic Studies Survey

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"Michael McAnear" <mmcanear at nu.edu>
Subject:National University Arabic Studies Survey

National University, in collaboration with the Language Acquisition
Resource Center at San Diego State University, is proposing to develop a
Bachelor of Arts in Arabic Studies leading to teaching certification.
The program would be offered in the classroom, as well as online, and is
intended to serve as a model for similar programs throughout the US. To
gauge interest in such a program, we have developed a brief online
survey. Your help is greatly appreciated. Please distribute to your
mailing list and/or make available from your website.

http://www.questionpro.com/akira/TakeSurvey?id=716890&ext_ref=3

Thank you,

Michael McAnear, PhD, Dean
College of Letters and Sciences
National University
mmcanear at nu.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:56:03 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:56:03 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Elon University Job
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105603.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Elon University Job

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:swindham at elon.edu
Subject:Elon University Job

Elon University
Visiting Assistant Professor of Arabic, Full- or Part-Time

Elon University seeks applicants for a full- or part-time continuing  
position at the visiting assistant professor level. Duties to begin  
immediately. Minimum requirements: M.A. in Arabic or related  
discipline; native or near-native fluency in Arabic; and demonstrated  
excellence in teaching at the undergraduate level. Elon is an  
undergraduate teaching institution, and serious commitment to quality  
teaching is essential. Responsibilities include teaching language,  
composition, and conversation courses. Teaching duties will also  
include courses (in English) on the Middle East, as part of the  
interdisciplinary general studies program. Elon is the recent  
recipient of a two-year Department of Education grant to develop its  
Middle Eastern Studies program. Elon is a dynamic private co- 
educational, comprehensive institution that is a national model for  
actively engaging faculty and students in teaching and learning. To  
learn more about Elon, please visit our Web site at www.elon.edu.  
Immediate email inquiri
es are welcome at swindham at elon.edu (prior to June 15) or  
dbodegra at elon.edu (after June 15). Review will begin immediately;  
complete applications must be received by August 15 to be assured of  
consideration. Send letter of application, curriculum vitae,  
statement of teaching philosophy, graduate and undergraduate  
transcripts, and three letters of support to: Dr. Donna Van  
Bodegraven, Chair, Department of Foreign Languages, c/o Linda  
Martindale, 2125 Campus Box, Elon University, Elon, North Carolina  
27244. Elon University is an equal opportunity employer committed to  
a diverse faculty, staff, and student body. Candidates from  
underrepresented groups are encouraged to apply.


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:46 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:46 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Arabic Transcription System refs
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105546.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Arabic Transcription System refs

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"Alexis Neme" <alexis.neme at gmail.com>
Subject:Arabic Transcription System refs

Dear colleage,

    For computer application, the most common transcription system is
Tim Buckwalter transcription (Penn university): for each letter in
Arabic there is only one letter in Latin alphabet.

For a similar pronunciation of Arabic in western alphabet, Buckwalter
transcription is good but i think you can find better solution or
maybe it does not fit your requirement.

Alexis

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:48 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:48 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First Suggestions
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105548.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First Suggestions

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"Bernhardt, James E" <BernhardtJE at state.gov>
Subject:Colloquial First Suggestions

This has been an interesting discussion so far.  I think it is worth
noting that second language acquisition research and experience seems to
indicate that at early levels of acquisition students are working with
memorized units and have no flexibility in their ability to produce.  At
the 0+ students are "able to satisfy immediate needs using rehearsed
utterances. [They] show little real autonomy of expression, flexibility
or spontaneity. [They] can ask questions or make statements with
reasonable accuracy only with memorized utterances or formulae. Attempts
at creating speech are usually unsuccessful." (ILR skill level
descriptions http://www.govtilr.org/ILRscale2.htm#0+)  In other words,
when we give students choices, they can't handle them because they can't
create speech yet.  Thus, it would seem to me that introducing MSA in
the second semester is too early (unless you have your students, like we
do, for 25 contact hours per week and require homework on top of that).

James E. Bernhardt
Chair, Near East, Central and South Asian Languages
FSI
703-302-7291

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:56:01 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:56:01 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Article on Testing in Arabic
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105601.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Article on Testing in Arabic

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:paula santillan <capraia at yahoo.com>
Subject:Article on Testing in Arabic

for a general, updated view on testing arabic, i
suggest the following article:

P. Winke, R. Aquil, Issues in Developing Standardized
Tests of Arabic Language Proficiency, in Handbook for
Arabic Language Teaching Professionals in the 21st
Century
Edited by Kassem M. Wahba

-p

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:44 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:44 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Needs etymology or info on 'ahar-
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105544.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs etymology or info on 'ahar-

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:Cerwyd at msn.com
Subject:Needs etymology or info on 'ahar-

Dear List Members:

There is apparently a rare Arabic word, 'ahar-, meaning "good form".   
This has been proposed as a root which might have had a cognate in  
early Hebrew.  As such, it may provide an etymology for the Biblical  
name Aaron.  However, as it appears to only be found in a few old  
dictionaries, some have suggested it may be a 'ghost' word.

Can anyone kindly supply me with additional information about this  
word in terms of its origin, cognates in other languages, etc.?

Thank you and most sincere best wishes,

Daniel Hunt

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:50 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:50 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:More negative reactions to Colloquial First
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105550.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"haider bhuiyan" <haider.bhuiyan.2 at m.cc.utah.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First

I second the view:
"I find students who worry about learning dialect completely  
incompetent in learning fusha and thus understanding
written material. ..... I do believe that dialect should be taught  
but after acquiring solid foundations in classical Arabic not at the  
beginning."

Best,

Haider Bhuiyan

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:55:40 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:55:40 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L;LNG:ARAM Conference info
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105540.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:ARAM Conference info

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:aram at aramsociety.org
Subject:ARAM Conference info

Dear Colleague,
The previous date of the ARAM Twenty Fifth International Conference  
1-3 July 2008 at Oxford University has been changed to 7-9 July 2008,  
because of the World Archaeological Congress (WAC) at Dublin University.
We hope that the new date of our ARAM conference 7-9 July 2008 is  
convenient for you.
We would like also to encourage those who have not yet registered for  
the above ARAM conference to do so before August.
Please find enclosed the names of the first speakers.
Yours sincerely,

Shafiq Abouzayd (Dr.)


Dr. Claudia B?hrig (Orient Dept of the German Archaeological  
Institute: DAI):
?Gadara/Umm Qais and the urban and cultural development of the  
ancient city.?

Dr. Lucinda Dirven (University of Amsterdam):
             ?Subject to be defined.?
Dr. Gideon Foerster (Hebrew University):            ?Bet Shean- 
Scythopolis.?Dr. Katharina Galor (Brown University):
             ?Subject to be defined.?
Prof. David Kennedy (University of Western Australia):
       ?Gerasa and the Decapolis. A ?virtual island? in northwest  
Jordan.?
Mr. Charlie March (PhD candidate at the University of London):
?From Temple to Church, the spatial aspects of religious transition.?

Dr. Gerald Mattingly (Johnson Bible College):
             ?Subject to be defined.?
Dr. Ahmad al- Shami (Department of Antiquities ? Amman):
?The Roman theatre of Bayt Ras/ Capitolias.?

Dr. Karel Vriezen (University of Utrecht):            ?Ancient Gadara  
and its region.?Prof. Dr. Thomas M. Weber (Johannes Gutenberg- 
Universit?t):            ?Roman Inscriptions in the Decapolis.?Prof.  
Zeev Weiss (Hebrew University):            ?Subject to be defined?.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:56:06 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:56:06 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:ahlan wasahlan and etymology
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105606.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:ahlan wasahlan

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:t.milo at chello.nl
Subject:ahlan wasahlan

All the comments on the phrase /ahla-n wa sahla-n/ "welcome" so far were
lexicographic and/or syntactic as perceived solely from within the  
confines
of Classical Arabic. But etymology, when investigating the the origin  
of a
word or expression", is not confined by language or culture barriers.

In the case of Arabic, after identifying the root morphemes of an Arabic
word, and after verifying whether its meaning falls in line with that of
other words that share these root morphemes, etymology would verify if
whether the word exists in Arabic alone. That can be done by  
analysing the
root morphemes and verifying whether these can be traced to common  
Semitic
(within the constraints of the full set of established rules of  
historical
sound change). If not, the extra-Semitic source must be sought,  
identified
and a systematic analysis must be made of how the word was adapted to
Arabic, using as many analogous cases as possible. If, however,  the  
root
morphemes are shared with common Semitic, then all related words in all
other Semitic languages must be collected in order to clarify the  
meaning of
the word concerned and to understand whence and how its meaning  
evolved. The
result of such a labour is an etymology.

In the case of  /ahla-n wa wahla-n/, it should also be investigated  
how and
why its meaning interchanges in classical Arabic with /marHaba-n/, also
"welcome", and how and why /ahla-n/ and /marHabaa/ flip-flop in the  
dialects
(East-West ahla-n was sahla-n means "hello" and /marHabaa/ "welcome"  
while
North-South these meanings are reversed). In this context etymology  
should,
among other things, verify whether this phenomenon has pre-Arabic or
extra-Arabic aspects.

However, in this sense etymology of Arabic is not studied at all. At  
least
to my knowledge, since Brockelmann's "Grundriss" (1908-1913) no
comprehensive reference work, let alone an etymological dictionary  
was ever
made to deal with Arabic or even Semitic etymology. This remains a  
worrying
and curious black hole in the discipline. All more recent historical
grammars in the field , with the sole exception of Burkhart Kienast,
Historische semitische Sprachwissenschaft, have apologetic titles like
"Manual", "Einf?hrung", "Essay", "Outline", "Introduction", "Beitr?ge",
"Lectures", etc. More seriously, all of them ignore or dismiss the  
massive
evidence that dialect Arabic can contribute to clarify the history of  
the
Arabic language. Only very recent essays such as one by Jonathan Owens
(Pre-diaspora Arabic, in Diachronica 22:2, 2005) and Pierre Larcher  
(Arabe
Pr?islamique - Arabe Coranique - Arabe Classique: Un continuum? - in:  
Die
dunklen Anf?nge, Berlin 2005) start to question the position of  
Classical
Arabic as the focus and reliable starting point for Arabic historical
linguistics. Al other works uncritically assume CA is the common  
origin of
all modern forms of Arabic.

These circumstances make Arabic etymologizing an academically unsound
exercise. In comparison, no germanist in his right mind would use Hoch
Deutsch as a reliable last resource for German or Germanic etymology.
Remember, the real business of the Grimm brothers was to collect  
evidence of
historical German outside and independent of High German, not to collect
fairy tales.

The good news is: there lots of work to do in this field.

Enjoy!

Thomas Milo

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:56:30 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:56:30 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Levantine Dialect Instructor Jobs DC area
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105630.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Levantine Dialect Instructor Jobs DC area

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:mnassiri at mlsolutions.com
Subject:Levantine Dialect Instructor Jobs DC area

To whom it may concern,

We are a company located in the Washington DC metropolitan area. We  
are searching for a reliable local Levantine Arabic dialect  
instructor and therefore thought you may know of someone in our area  
you would kindly refer to us. Your help is very much appreciated.  
Thank you!

Sincerely,

Maryam Nassiri
Multilingual Solutions Inc.
Tel: 301.424.7444 ext: 12
Fax: 301.424.7331
MNassiri at MLSolutions.com
www.MLSolutions.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  13 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 13 16:56:19 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:56:19 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Plurals
Message-ID: <WED.13.JUN.2007.105619.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Plurals
2) Subject:Plurals
3) Subject:Plurals

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"haider bhuiyan" <haider.bhuiyan.2 at m.cc.utah.edu>
Subject:Plurals

Peace to all:

Out of the three observations, I would like to make a point about the  
observation (1).
I think here the rule is of situation/condition/position which in  
Arabic called ??? , not of plural of any kind. Please note, in the  
verse 7:160 the word at question is ?????? not ????? shown  
in the question as plural. The word ?????? may be analyzed this  
way: ????? is plural of ??? that does not take ???  but  
this plural noun has one. Why? Because this ??? is independent of  
the original plural noun ????? and it is the ??? of  
situational structure of the sentence called ??? . I hope I am  
making some sense.

Best regard

Haider Bhuiyan


> On the "broken plurals," my colleague, Dr. Schub, raises a few  
> probing questions:
>
>
> (1) He wonders why the plural / ????? / is used instead of the  
> singular / ??? / in the qur'anic verse: / ?????????  
> ????? ???? ?????? ???? /, VII: 160.
>
> I'm afraid there is no violation of the grammatical code here.  We  
> are to be alerted that / ?????? / is not a noun of  
> distinction /????? /; rather, it is a noun in apposition /  
> ??? / to the number / ????? ???? /.   As a relevant  
> detail, may I add that even the masculine singular / ??? / would  
> not fit as a noun of distinction after the feminine composite  
> number / ????? ???? /.   Exegetes and grammarians construe  
> the verse as:
>
> /                     ????? ???? ? ?????? ????   
> [ ????] ???????? /.
>
> Incidentally, the word / ??? / has / ?????? / as another,  
> yet rarely used, plural of abundance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"Schub, Michael B." <Michael.Schub at trincoll.edu>
Subject:Plurals

no one should have to sacrifice the dearest of his own family, even  
for the sublimities and profundities of Arabic  
grammar....                      ms

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
3)
Date: 13 Jun 2007
From:"Dr. M Deeb" <muhammaddeeb at gmail.com>
Subject:Plurals


The qur'anic text in my response to Dr. Schub turned out in a jumbled  
form, thus defeating the basic argument.

  (1) This was the way it was posted last time:
  ---------------------------------------------

/ ????? ???? ? ?????? ????  [ ????]  
????????/

----------------------------------------------

(2) This is how exegetes and grammarians construe the verse in question:
  ---------------------------------------------

/ ??????? ????? ????   ? ????? ?  ??????  
???? /

---------------------------------------------

(3) Much as I loathe it, a transliteration may be the next best thing  
to the Arabic script.  Here it is in the case of any electronic glitch:


[qaTTa'naahum ithnatay 'ashrata
- firaqan -,
asbaaTan 'umaman].

Appreciating your patience,

*MD

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:04:37 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:04:37 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Plurals
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110437.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Plurals

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:"Marco Hamam" <marco.hamam at poste.it>
Subject:Plurals

Hi everybody. I would like to add another element to the discussion  
of plurals in the Quran, if i am allowed.
I already knew the question of ????? ???? ?????? which,  
as far as I know, has not been solved by the mufassirin. Reading the  
Quran I had some other big problems with plurals and duals. Maybe you  
can help me deal with them and maybe this will be a starting point  
for a broader discussion.
Here I give some of the problems I remember (I wrote down the  
interested ayas on a piece of paper...it must be somewhere...):

1.
???? ??????? ? 15 ? 16
????????? ?????????? ???????????  
???? ??????? ??????????? ???????  
??????????? ??????????? ????  
??????? ??????????? ??????????
/Qawaariir/ is the plural of /qaaruura/. And it is evidently a  
DIPTOTE name (in arabic mamnuu3 min aS-Sarf) like, for instance, / 
kawaabiis/ as a plural of /kaabuus/ (kawaabisu / kawaabisa) or as the  
hundrends of names with /mafaa3iil/ wazn. So why is it /qawaariiraa/  
(with a big alif) and not /qawaariira/ with no alif? You'll notice  
that later correctors have been puzzled by that and have made this  
alif as the alif after waw al-jamaa3a (a prosthetic alif with a sukun  
on it). Yet, why is an alif there?

2.
???? ??????? ? 4
?????? ??????????? ?????????????  
???????? ?????????? ??????????
Same problem with /salaasilaa/ . Why this last alif? (Where alif  
lacks like in /kaafiriin/, /salaasilaa/, /aghlaalaa/, you have to add  
the little alif).

3.
???? ???? ? 19
??????? ????????? ??????????? ???  
?????????
Why has the dual /khasmaani/ a plural /ikhtaSamuu/ and not a dual  
verbal form (+ the pronoun -him instead of -himaa)? Why is it not / 
ikhtasamaa fii rabbihimaa/?

4.
???? ??????? ? 4
  ???? ???????? ????? ??????? ??????  
?????? ????????????
The subject of the hypotetical phrase is dual: /in tatuubaa/ . But  
then there is /Saghat quluubukumaa/. Why is it not /Saghaa  
qalbaakumaa/ given that we have two hearts?

These were the parts I could remember. I hope it will stimulate a  
discussion.
Regards,

Marco Hamam

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:04:49 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:04:49 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Job in Oman
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110449.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Job in Oman

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:Maria Persson <Maria.Persson at ling.lu.se>
Subject:Job in Oman

Dear colleagues,

I will be on a sabbatical from my teaching position in Oman next  
calendar year to concentrate on my Gulf Arabic research. Hence, my  
employer needs someone to substitute for me during that year. I love  
my job and I'm very glad to recommend it to anyone with the right  
qualifications who would like to work part time in a small language  
school with highly motivated students and a wonderful staff ;).

Maria

Job Title: Teacher of Modern Standard Arabic required for one year  
from February 08 to January 09

Description: Our institute offers a full-time course in Gulf  
colloquial and Modern Standard Arabic aimed at taking students from  
absolute beginner in the Arabic language to comfortable communicator  
in two years.  We have small classes (up to 12, usually around 6-7 or  
less) of highly motivated students and all of our teachers consider  
the teaching atmosphere to be a very positive one.  From February  
2008, we will need a Modern Standard Arabic teacher who is able to  
both teach all levels of the Al-Kitaab Series published by Georgetown  
University Press and oversee and train a native Arabic speaker in the  
teaching of MSA.   He/She will need to be able to teach in the medium  
of the Arabic language using modern interactive teaching methods.   
The period of employment will be for one year only, teaching our  
spring semester from February 2008 to June 2008; our autumn semester  
from September 2007 to January 2009 and potentially also summer  
courses in July.

For more information on this position, our institute, our courses and  
the area, please feel free to both visit our website at  
www.gapschool.net and contact us directly.

Job Title:

Teacher of Modern Standard Arabic

Location (can be general):

Buraimi, Oman (Twin city of Al Ain, United Arab Emirates)

Hours of Work:

8a.m. ? 11:00 a.m. weekdays  (Sunday to Thursday). Some days would go  
until 12:30.

Salary:

Depending on qualifications and schedule, between AED51,000 and  
AED56,000 (approx $13,900 - $15,300) for the whole year.

Qualifications Needed

For a non-native Arabic speaker, a Masters or PhD in Arabic, having  
native-like fluency in at least one dialect and Modern Standard  
Arabic and experience teaching beginner and intermediate levels of  
Arabic.

For a native Arabic speaker we would accept a BA in Arabic with at  
least two years experience of teaching Arabic as a foreign language.   
Knowledge of English necessary.

Length of Commitment Required

1 year (from February 2008 to January 2009)

Contact name, address, email or phone:

Michael Clucas, P.O. Box 17213, Al-Ain, UAE.

e-mail: info at gapschoo.net

Tel.: +971-3-7551858

Fax.: +971-3-7551878

(Note: Office hours are 8a.m. ? 1p.m. local time; Sunday to Thursday)



---------------------------------------------
Maria Persson, SOL
Lund University, P.O. Box 201, 221 00 Lund, Sweden


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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:05:01 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:05:01 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LIT:Needs original of Abu Nuwas qasida
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110501.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs original of Abu Nuwas qasida

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:"Vrsan Lestaric" <fursan at EUnet.yu>
Subject:Needs original of Abu Nuwas qasida

Dear friends and colleagues,

Does anybody know the original of the following Abu Nuwas' qasida:

Always I have and will
Scatter god and gold to the four winds.
When we meet, I delight in what the Book forbids.
And flee what is allowed.

(Diwan Abu Nuwas, 62, after Kennedy, p. 220)

I leafed diligently through books and encyclopedias but to no avail...

Thanks in advance,
Vrsan Lestaric

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  15 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:04:46 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:04:46 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Wants list of sites for teaching Arabic
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110446.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Wants list of sites for teaching Arabic

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:Mohamed Esa <mesa at mcdaniel.edu>
Subject:Wants list of sites for teaching Arabic

Hi:

I am wondering if anyone on the list has a good list of Internet  
websites for teaching Arabic: Vocabulary, Grammar, Culture, History,  
etc.

Any help is apprecaited.

Please send your responses to: mesa at mcdaniel.edu

Shukran,

Mohamed

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  15 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:04:31 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:04:31 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:asbaaTan response
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110431.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:asbaaTan response

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:"Dr. M Deeb" <muhammaddeeb at gmail.com>
Subject:asbaaTan response

> Why? Because this ??? is independent of the original plural noun  
> ????? and
> it is the ??? of situational structure of the sentence called  
> ??? . I hope I
> am making some sense.

*NB:*
*Writiing from Cairo, I'm using a *
*borrowed laptop, and thus faced with several **electronic  
difficulties.  At
any rate, I hope I make myself understandable. *
**
Whilst there could be merit in swimming against the tide, I don't see  
any
merit in construing /*??????*/ as an accusative of condition.   
There is a
conssensus of grammatical opinion that / *??????*  / is a  noun in
apposition to the accusitives in the qur'anic verse at issue, as I  
pointed
out several times in earlier posts.

On this point, please, check the following sources:

* / ?????? ?????? / *
*/ ?????? ??????? / *
*/ ???? ???? /*
*    /??????? ?? ???? ?????? /*
--
M. Deeb

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:04:40 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:04:40 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Needs refs on 'spirit of Arabic'
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110440.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs refs on 'spirit of Arabic'

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:paula santillan <capraia at yahoo.com>
Subject:Needs refs on 'spirit of Arabic'

A beginning student of mine has inquired me about
books ?in English- that deal with  ?ru7 al-3arabiyya?,
i.e. how the root systems works, connections between
meanings and words, etymologies and curiosities in
general. she?s interested in an
anthropological/psychological approach to these issues
rather than on a grammatical one. any suggestions?

shukran

p

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  15 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Fri Jun 15 17:05:30 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:05:30 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First Discussion
Message-ID: <FRI.15.JUN.2007.110530.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Fri 15 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion (response from Mustafa)
2) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion
3) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion
4) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion
5) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion
6) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion
7) Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:Mustafa Mughazy <mustafa.mughazy at wmich.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

Thanks to all of those who responded to my announcement by posting
comments on the list or by emailing me directly. We are taking all these
comments in consideration and we are seriously interested in what you
think.

Initially, I was worried that this posting might reignite the old debate
of whether colloquial dialects should be taught at all. However, ALL the
responses I got assume that students should learn both MSA and a
dialect; the question now is how and when. I think this is a major
paradigm shift that should be noted.

For considerations of space and your time, I did not include all the
details in my initial posting. I think now is a better time to clarify a
couple of points.

We do not intend to use Romanized transcription or transliteration at
all. Colloquial Arabic will be exclusively taught in the Arabic script
with minor modifications to accommodate the dialect (these modifications
are not idiosyncratic; they are used in MSA to encode things like the v,
p, and g). This way, knowledge of the writing system can easily transfer
to MSA. I completely agree that teaching ONLY colloquial in
transliteration leads to illiterate Arabic speakers; there are enough of
those already in the Arab world.

The textbook we are using for the dialect is in the Arabic script and it
includes all the MSA-Colloquial shared words and grammar points in the
Al-kitaab I, which students will start using in the second semester.
Students will start Unit 1 of Al-kitaab knowing most of the words
already. Hopefully that will speed up their acquisition of MSA.

Learning a dialect and then Fusha sounds to me like moving from simple
to complicated, which is a natural progress of learning anything;
tricycle then a bicycle, and for the very talented ones a monocycle.

For programs with significant numbers of heritage students, I think the
colloquial first approach will promote a fair/equal opportunity learning
environment. Heritage students can test out of the colloquial semester.
In the second semester, the gap between them and non-heritage students
will be less problematic.

We can all agree that studying abroad is useful when learning any
modern/living language. However, I do not think studying MSA/Classical
Arabic alone in the Middle East is a particularly productive activity.
It is no different from studying those varieties of Arabic in the US
because those students will not get immersed in MSA or Classical Arabic
(we might need a time machine for this). If students want to be immersed
in MSA/CA, I recommend the libraries of the U of Michigan, Illinois, and
Georgetown. Exposure to the culture is invaluable, but I am completely
against the assumption that students can pick up colloquial Arabic on
the street. Maybe some students are good at this, but the vast majority
needs instruction.

Finally, I looked at various medieval Arabic texts and there is quite a
bit of colloquial in them, so even students who plan to become scholars
of medieval studies still need to know colloquial. I have seen many
scholars of anthropology, political science, and sociology who spent
years studying MSA only, and ended up using interpreters when they
conducted research in the Middle East. I have no idea how government
agents use MSA to do their business.

By the way, how do you stop a car in Iraqi Arabic? The American gesture
for stopping cars looks very much like the Egyptian gesture for greeting
someone who is far (in a car); no wonder they do not stop!

Mustafa Mughazy

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:Nimat Hafez Barazangi <nhb2 at cornell.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

Although each point raised so far has its own credibility, my feeling  
is that we are basically forgetting one of the basic characteristics  
of Arabic as a "Diglossic' one, as well as the cognitive processes  
that language learners experience both in understanding and deploying  
a language. Some of us may not agree with Ferguson's argument, but my  
empirical studies of both Arab children acquiring Arabic as a first  
language and American adult students learning Arabic as a second/ 
foreign language indicate that learners need the basic grammatical  
elements in order to make sense of what they are processing before  
they are able to deploy the language.

This need was particularly evident with the American students  
learning Levantine first. They did not have a point of reference to  
compare the grammatical structure, hence they were using the grammar  
of either their first language, or other languages that they have  
learned before, in order to internalize the variations in the  
structure, especially when they were switching gender, or matching an  
adjective to a noun, etc.  Hence, they were missing both the concept  
and the application.  Also, those who were learning colloquial first,  
had difficulty relating text to sound or the written to the oral.

Perhaps we need to conduct more empirical studies that are not  
conducted by those who instruct one way or the other. If you are  
interested to read more on the latter study, consult the following  
web site:
http://www.eself-learning-arabic.cornell.edu, Check "Arabic Self- 
Learning" publications.

Best wishes,
Nimat
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
3)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:Frederic Cadora <frederic.cadora at uc.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

Consider the argument presented in the following article some 40  
years ago:

F. Cadora, The Teaching of Spoken and Written Arabic," Language  
Learning,
Vol. 22, Nos. 3 and 4 (1965), pp. 133-6

F. Cadora

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
4)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From: Fadia Hamid <fetfet at sbcglobal.net>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

This is an excellent detailed response David. The points you raise  
are valid and merit a closer look at the material available to teach  
Arabic. I teach at the High School level and the evaluations of my  
Arabic 1 students all included comments about how they wish they had  
learned more colloquial vocabulary/expressions.
I believe your point about "what is the goal of studying the  
language" is of utmost importance when deciding whether the focus  
should be on colloquial or MSA.
And yes, you are right, native speakers, and I am one, haldy ever  
speak in fusha or use literary Arabic.
Great discussion!
Fadia Hamid

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
5)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:jeremy.palmer at gmail.com
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

Discussing the issue concerning the teaching of spoken Arabic is  
useful and hopefully fruitful. As an aspiring professor of Arabic  
second language acquisition I would like to simply include my own  
intuition regarding the topic. Having spoken with many fellow  
students of Arabic, it is fairly clear that the majority of us want  
to learn Arabic to communicate in as natural a manner as possible. It  
also seems to me that the up-and-coming generation of Arabic students  
and teachers will be pushing for spoken Arabic instruction. Now that  
I have revealed an obvious bias in favor of teaching spoken Arabic,  
let me state that I hope we will all be considerate of differing  
opinions and work together to find successful curricula.

Jeremy Palmer

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
6)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:dina elzarka <dina.elzarka at uni-graz.at>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

I could not agree more with Mustafa Mughazy and David Willmsen, as  
far as colloquial first is concerned. We have used Al-Kitaab for some  
years now, that means, that we start with a little small talk in  
ammiyya using Alif Baa first, but then switch to Fusha only. But this  
is unsatisfactory,  as the little ammiyya in the beginning not quite  
takes students to the "breakthrough level" according to the European  
Language Portfolio for example, and most students also forget most of  
it during the rest of the year.

I have only tried once to go on using ammiyya and fusha in parallel  
as suggested by the authors of Al-Kitaab, but the outcome was  
disastrous (there may have been other factors responsible for that as  
well). Our students will ultimately become translators and  
interpreters, which means that we have to bring them to a reasonable  
level of proficiency in MSA within two years when they start the  
basic translation programme.

I wonder if there is a solution to the written/colloquial problem if  
you only have that little time. If anyone has a good experience  
teaching both varieties in parallel, I'd be happy to know. Any  
comments and suggestions welcome.

Kind regards,
Dina El Zarka

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
7)
Date: 15 Jun 2007
From:"John Joseph Colangelo" <yaacolangelo at hotmail.com>
Subject:Colloquial First Discussion

Dear Sir,

You quoted Qafiseh saying:

He points out that students who begin their
study of Arabic with exposure to the vernacular are generally more
motivated and successful in their study than are those who begin with
fusha.

I beg to disagree. I would like to see any of your students or non  
native professors compare his or her Arabic to people such as Hamza  
Yousef (from the Zaytuna Institute), Dr. Umar Abdullah (from the  
Nawawee Institute of Chicago) or Dr. Timothy Winters (a scholar at  
the University of Cambridge). I would really like to know what you  
base your conclusions on. The people I have quoted are just a few of  
the many students who chose the study of Fusha first and then  
acquired a usage of a dialect ?on the way.? I have listened to  
orientalists worried about dialect and not only do they have a  
foreign accent in dialect but their classical Arabic is to say the  
least not up to par (See Alberto Fern?ndez).

As a possible solution I already asked the Arab colleague why  
students aren?t taught in classical Arabic in the classrooms. I still  
haven?t received an answer. Maybe it?s because the professors who  
spent their two to three years in Egypt didn?t worry about learning  
to speak Arabic per se and now cannot even if they tried.  Dialect is  
not something that needs serious classroom study (unless you are off  
to Iraq and you want the people to think you are from the Anbar  
region. Don?t worry, they?ll know you aren?t.) But joking aside, I  
also stated that it took me a year to understand well one of the  
Arabic dialects and by the second year I was using it when I deemed  
it necessary to do so: At the souq and in taxis!

Then you say, Professor, that well educated native speakers cannot  
speak proper classical Arabic ( or vowelize it). All I can say is  
that I know many Arabs, many (even among Moroccans) who can speak  
with nominal declensions not to mention the fact that I have also  
seen many speakers on Al-Jazeera (of course with the exception of  
Mohammed Hussein Haikal who is so fond of writing in Egyptian dialect  
something I personally detest) who decline their nouns and use the  
right vowels for their verbs really well. And to the disgust of the  
enemies of the Arabic language things are improving thanks to the  
mass media revolution in the Arab world.

You then say, I quote:

I have worked for years with Arabic interpreters and teachers of  
translation and interpreting whose very professional success hinges  
upon their proficiency in composing and declaiming in fusha.

Well, if the issue is being a court interpreter for Moroccan  
immigrants who like mixing Bereber with Moroccan dialect then knowing  
dialect can be useful. However, if you are talking about conference  
interpreters then you must have observed the wrong people in the  
wrong place. I know several Arabic interpreters from countries such  
as Morocco, Lebanon and Egypt and they use correct vowelization when  
speaking. Not one of them has used dialect in the booth and if they  
did, they would never be hired again.

Again, I have lived in several parts of the Arab world for over seven  
years and Classical Arabic is not limited to radio or television. It  
is used in the classroom, in the mosque ( I haven?t been to a  
Christian Arab church but I would imagine they also use fusha), in  
speeches, at dinners, between Arabs from different countries. And if  
you are going to teach your students Egyptian and then to discuss  
linguistic issues in Egyptian then your students are going to have  
their professional horizons severly limited, limited to where  
Egyptian dialect is used. And their inablity to use classical Arabic  
in a classroom will make them functional illiterates.

Finally, let me just say that there are many dialects and wasting  
peoples time on the acquisition of the Egyptian dialect will prevent  
them from learning one of the richest languages in the world. I  
previously mentioned in another letter that I am not against teaching  
dialect. I believe, however, students after acquiring a solid  
foundation in classical Arabic can be given an introductory course on  
several dialects such as Moroccan, Egyptian, Syrian and Gulf.

And before I go when I go to the Arab world people ask me what part  
of the Arab world I am from and then when I speak to them in a bit of  
dialect they ask me what part  of the Arabian pensinsula I am from  
just like when I speak Spanish they ask me what part of Spain I come  
from.

J.J.C.

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:14 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:14 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102714.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First
2) Subject:Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:yaacolangelo at hotmail.com
Subject:Colloquial First

Prof. Dilworth,
Here is a link to a page in Arabic for translators and professors of  
Arabic. It would be interesting if we could continue the discussion  
there.
http://www.atida.org/forums/showthread.php?p=5970&posted=1#post5970
John


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:"David Wilmsen" <dww22 at georgetown.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First

I did not quote Qafisheh (who happened to be a professor of mine) but
simply summarized his results.  Any dispute with his results must,
therefore, be with him and not with me, even though his results
support my point.

As for my experience with interpreters, I was for twelve years the
director of Arabic and Translation Studies in what is now called the
School of Professional Studies at the American University in Cairo
(and for two more years responsible for that programme and others as
an associate dean in the School). The programme offered professional
certification in translation and simultaneous and consecutive
interpreting in Arabic, French, and English and for many years
conducted a translation and interpreting service that provided
interpreting for almost any kind of conference as can be held, up to
and including peace talks in Sharm El Sheikh and sessions of the
League of Arab States.  As the director and a teacher in the
programme, I have observed Lebanese, Palestinian, Egyptian, and
interpreters from other parts of the Arab world at work in the booth
and in the classroom (the classroom observations being not limited to
my department at AUC but also at al-Azhar and Cairo University as well
as at Notre Dame University in Lebanon).  Graduates of my programme
(some of whom I trained personally and whose careers I sponsored) are
highly placed interpreters at international organizations like the
IMF, the World Bank, the United Nations, and the International
Aviation Authority, as well as the high profile media outlets like the
BBC, al-Arabiyya, and al-Jazeera.

My observations of interpreters in practice are presented in "One
Global Standard or Multiple Regional Standards?:  A problem in the
practice and  pedagogy of Arabic interpreting," in Collados A?s,
?ngela, Manuela Fern?ndez S?nchez, Macarena Pradas Mac?as,  Concepci?n
S?nchez Adam, Elisabeth St?vaux (eds). La evaluaci?n de la calidad en
interpretaci?n: docencia y profesi?n. Granada: Comares. 2003,  69?78.

They are also summarized in "What is Communicative Arabic?" in Wahba,
Kassem, Zeinab Taha, and Lisbeth England, Handbook for Arabic Language
Teaching Professionals in the 21st Century. Mahwa, NJ:  Erlbaum. 2006,
125?138, where I make the argument for beginning the teaching of
non-native students of Arabic with a dialect.

On the other hand, I have not had a great deal of experience with
court interpreting, or any other type of community interpreting,
except for some involvement with the training of community
interpreters among the African refugee communities residing in Cairo,
which programme was run out of the department of Forced Migration and
Refugee Studies at AUC, and for which I served mostly as an advisor
and an occasional lecturer.

I think this permits me to speak with some authority on the practice
of Arabic interpreting.

Now that that is out of the way, allow me to reiterate that those
objecting to beginning the teaching of Arabic as a foreign language
with an introduction to a vernacular by expressing the fear that
students will thereby never learn to contend with the higher registers
of the Arabic literary heritage or the intricacies of the Arabic
grammatical tradition are missing the point of what is being proposed
here.

What is being proposed is a sequence of Arabic teaching to more or
less normal college students who may or may not go on to higher levels
of Arabic study by first introducing them to the spoken vernacular
before giving them thorough instruction in the writing system. (We
hope that some of them will become so fascinated by it all that they
will go on to become scholars or otherwise specialists in the field.)

We cannot build a language teaching programme using sterling examples
of non-native speakers who have become highly proficient in
specialized aspects of declaimed formal Arabic  ? who also seem to
have acquired their command of fusha for specific purposes such as
religion ? as its model and ultimate goals. Such an enterprise would
be doomed to failure. These remarkable individuals gain their
impressive skill through sheer determination and personal effort;
results such as they have achieved are well beyond the scope of what a
university programme can offer.  It would be nice if we could, but we
cannot.  I would venture to guess that such people will have acquired
their impressive skill with fusha regardless of the sequence in which
they learned the vernacular (if they have learned it at all) either
before or afterwards.  What is more, to cite them as examples is
perhaps a bit disingenuous, considering that some such learners
probably have no interest in learning a vernacular, preferring to
focus their attention on the more formal registers of the liturgical
language of Islam.

Most of our students do not share such interests.

Objections naming such individuals as exemplars needlessly complicate
the debate.  The question is in fact much simpler:  in what order are
we as Arabic teachers to approach the teaching of a dialect?  In
answering that, we must take the needs, interests, desires and
proclivities of our students in mind, just as we should be considering
the results of the latest thinking in the field of language learning.
And we should be paying some attention to how our students are going
to be using their language skills in their professional lives and what
employers wish from them.  Most are not going to become scholars or
converts to Islam, but many of them will engage with speakers of
Arabic and with the Arabic press and media throughout their careers
(at least we hope that they will, and they share that hope).


I am not claiming that educated speakers of Arabic cannot declaim in
fusha; they can, and the evidence for this is multitude.  Nor am I
arguing that students should not learn fusha. They certainly should;
indeed I advocate in Wahba, Taha, and England for a five-year
undergraduate major in Arabic to provide students the time they need
to delve deeply into Arabic with a full four years dedicated to fusha
(they need more than five years, but university administrations are
not likely to concede them even that). What I and others like me are
arguing is that it is more logical to begin teaching Arabic with a
dialect (it hardly matters which one) before going on to an intensive
study of fusha.  As Parkinson pointed out in this thread, students who
have first learned to perform conversationally in an Arabic vernacular
will have fewer conceptual difficulties contending with the
complexities of fusha, having first learned analogous (if simpler)
concepts in the dialect.

We should of course be aiming to enable them to discourse at the
higher registers of Arabic either spoken or written as a fair number
of reasonably well-educated native speakers of the language can do.
Whether they ever become highly proficient at declaiming
extemporaneously in fusha with complete flawless vowelling is another
matter, and should really be of only small concern to us as teachers.

The vernaculars and fusha are aspects of a single language.  My
contention remains that any true Arabist must be proficient in both
fusha and at least one vernacular; to be deficient in either one is to
miss half of the rich culture of Arabic.

David Wilmsen

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  19 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:27 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:27 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:'Spirit of Arabic' refs
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102727.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:'Spirit of Arabic' refs

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:"jolanda guardi (jolanda.guardi)" <jolanda.guardi at unimi.it>
Subject:'Spirit of Arabic' refs

Two titles that deal with this subject (in French) are:

A. Kilito, La langue d'Adam
M. Chelli, La parole arabe, Sindbad Paris

Hope this hepls
Jolanda Guardi

L'ESSERE PIU' INUTILE DELLA TERRA E' IL TOPO DI BIBLIOTECA , Gaoshi  
(periodo Tang)

Jolanda Guardi
Lingua e traduzione araba
Universit? di Milano
Facolt? di Scienze Politiche
Dipartimento di Lingue e Culture Contemporanee
studio 4007
Piazza Indro Montanelli, 1
20099 Sesto san Giovanni (MI)
tel. 02 50321645
Portable 349 8310324
jolanda.guardi at unimi.it

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  19 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:21 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:21 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Needs info on Arabic study in Syria ASAP
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102721.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs info on Arabic study in Syria ASAP

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:: "J Murgida" <jmurg at ttlc.net>
Subject:Needs info on Arabic study in Syria ASAP

[please respond directly to Jackie at e-mail above]

Dear Colleagues,
If you can provide feedback on experience with the two institutions  
below,
please respond directly to
Paul Coltrin [pcolt at mindspring.com]
**but as soon as possible [he's leaving on 24 June]**

This student is on the wait list for summer Arabic study in Damascus (at
Institut Fran?ais du Proche-Orient). If that doesn't work out, he must
choose between
(1) Arabic Language Center at the University of
Damascus(http://www.arabicindamascus.edu.sy/English.html)   On the above
website, go to "Standard Arabic Regular Courses Program (SARC)."
(2) Damascus Language School for Standard
Arabic(http://www.standard-arabic.com/)

Any advice you can provide before he departs would be greatly  
appreciated.
Best regards,
Jackie

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:29 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:29 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:more info on 'ahar root
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102729.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:more info on 'ahar root

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:moderator
Subject:more info on 'ahar root

The poster of the message on the root 'ahar was asked to specify what  
actual Arabic consonants were involved, since it is not always clear  
from the transliteration.
The answer is:
The ' refers to an initial hamza
The h is a soft h.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  19 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:25 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:25 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:lists of sites for teaching Arabic responses
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102725.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:lists of sites for teaching Arabic response
2) Subject:lists of sites for teaching Arabic response

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From: dalal abayazied <dalalied at yahoo.com>
Subject:lists of sites for teaching Arabic response

Try the following link
http://www.yemenlinks.com/Arabic_Resources.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From: "Haroon Shirwani" <arabictutor at hotmail.com>
Subject:lists of sites for teaching Arabic response

Dear Mohamed

Here are the best sites I have come across:

Vocabulary (and some grammar) - http://www.languageguide.org/arabic/
Culture and history - http://arabworld.nitle.org/main_menu.php

Best wishes,
Haroon

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Tue Jun 19 16:27:19 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:27:19 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Needs Arabic Learners and Native Speakers for
 research project
Message-ID: <TUE.19.JUN.2007.102719.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 19 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs Arabic Learners and Native Speakers for research  
project (UofMaryland)

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 19 Jun 2007
From:Rajaa Aquil <raquil at umd.edu>
Subject:Needs Arabic Learners and Native Speakers for research  
project (UofMaryland)

                                                                         
        *Take a language test and earn _$80!_*
*                                                                        
     Do you speak Arabic?*
                                                                         
                    (reading and writing NOT needed)**
Language study seeks the following kinds of speakers to participate  
in a research project:
*1.      *Learner of Arabic, at the 200 level (Intermediate and or  
Advanced)
      (Must be native speaker of English)
*        or*
*2.      *Someone who speaks Arabic at home
*        or*
*3.      *Native speaker of Arabic (Must know English)

    ?        Must be available for 4 -5 hours at a time convenient  
for you.
    ?        Participants will take a listening and speaking test in  
Arabic
    ?        You will receive $80 upon completion of the test.

This is an officially approved study being conducted by the School of  
Languages, Literatures, and Cultures, University of Maryland, College  
Park.  Any information collected will be kept confidential.  *The  
test is administered on site: University of Maryland*

*Interested?*  Call 301-405-0976 and leave a message with your name  
and phone number or email address where we can reach you. Or email us  
at: Arabictest at umd.edu <mailto:Arabictest at umd.edu>

**Rajaa Aquil, Ph.D.,
SLLC, University of Maryland

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  19 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:26 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:26 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:A female vice president would be a catastrophe
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101826.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:A female vice president would be a catastrophe

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:Michael.Schub at trincoll.edu
Subject:A female vice president would be a catastrophe

Hi Dil and Friends,
       Hypothetically, if a woman were  elected vice President in  
2008, will she be called  /naa'ibu  r-ra'iis[at]i/  or

/naa'batu  r-ra'iis[at]i/ ??  The crux here is that the second  
expression may be interpreted to mean 'the

President's calamity/disaster/catastrophe.'  Thus, explains George  
Jirdaq (Al-Majalla #1390, Oct., 2006.

p. 15 mid), that female Lebanese legislators are called  /an-naa'ibu   
fulaana/  [using the masculine form].

      There are literally hundreds of synonyms for 'calamity/ 
catastrophe,' etc. in Arabic, and some 138 of them

[including  /naa'ibatun/] are listed by Rafael Nakhla, S.J. in his   
*Gharaa'ibu  l-Lughati  l-`Arabiyyati,*

Beirut, no date.

       Best wishes from an undisclosed location, welding polysemy  
onto politics,

                                                                         
                                    Mike Schub

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--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:06 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:06 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:'Spirit of Arabic' summary
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101806.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:'Spirit of Arabic' summary

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:paula santillan <capraia at yahoo.com>
Subject:'Spirit of Arabic' summary

first of all, thanks Jolnada.

////////

A few days ago I submitted a message asking about
references on the ?spirit of Arabic?. I?d like to
share the results I?ve obtained from a couple of
members, as well as those that I was eventually able
to recall.

1) The semantics of form in Arabic, in the mirror of
European languages. Amsterdam ; Philadelphia : J.
Benjamins, c1987. (Studies in language companion
series; v.15), by David Justice

2) Shouby, E. 1951 ?The influence of the Arabic
language on the psychology of the Arabs?, Middle East
Journal, 5: 284-302.

3) Antaki, I. 1989 La cultura de los ?rabes, M?xico:
Siglo Veintiuno. (there?s a chapter devoted to the
language).

4) Tapi?ro, N. (1986) Quelques relations fondamentales
entre les stuctures psycho-sociologiques et les
structures linguisitiques des arabes. (Sorry, no
further details of it).


-paula

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:11 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:11 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Needs model Lesson Plans for beginning Arabic
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101811.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:"Samia Kholoussi" <skholoussi at comcast.net>
Subject:Needs model Lesson Plans for beginning Arabic

Hi,

I would appreciate it if somebody would supply me with models of  
lesson plans for classes of beginners of Arabic.

Thanks,
Samia Kholoussi
Associate Professor
Ain Shams University, Cairo

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:14 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:14 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Wants Teaching Assistant Position
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101814.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Wants Teaching Assistant Position

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:"Scott Brown" <sgbrow at gmail.com>
Subject:Wants Teaching Assistant Position

Hello-
I am a fifth-year student of Arabic that will enter graduate school  
in the
Fall of '08. I was a teaching assistant for one year at the College of
William and Mary my senior year of undergraduate studies. I am  
looking to
find a full-time/part-time Teaching Assistant/Teaching Fellow  
position in
Arabic/Middle Eastern Studies. I am willing to relocate. Please e- 
mail me if
you know of any availability: Scott Brown @ sgbrow at gmail.com

Shukran,
Scott

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:08 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:08 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:LING:Needs Syrian dialect book
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101808.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Needs Syrian dialect book

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:"omid ghaemmaghami" <omid.ghaemmaghami at utoronto.ca>
Subject:Needs Syrian dialect book

Dear All:

Is there a book (preferably with an audio component) that you would  
strongly
recommend to someone wishing to learn the Syrian dialect?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

Best Wishes,
omid
Omid Ghaemmaghami
PhD Student, University of Toronto
omid.ghaemmaghami at utoronto.ca

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:19 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:19 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Lists of Arabic Teaching sites
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101819.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Lists of Arabic Teaching sites

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From: "tons" <tons at aucegypt.edu>
Subject:Lists of Arabic Teaching sites

You can check the following
http://www.ali.aucegypt.edu/MowagaaArabia.php
Abbas Al-Tonsi

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Thu Jun 21 16:18:16 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:18:16 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:GEN:Alan Kaye
Message-ID: <THU.21.JUN.2007.101816.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Thu 21 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Alan Kaye

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:Uri Horesh <urih at mail.utexas.edu>
Subject:Alan Kaye

[from LINGUIST]

Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:38:42
From: Jim Eisenbraun < jeisenbraun at eisenbrauns.com >
Subject: Sad news: Alan S. Kaye

We are deeply saddened to report the news, from Jeremy Kaye, that his
father, Alan S. Kaye, widely known for his work in Semitic linguistics,
passed away on May 31 due to complications of cancer. He was  
diagnosed with
bone cancer only one month earlier, on May 1, in the United Arab  
Emirates,
where he was on research leave. The cancer had already metastasized and
affected many of his organs. Jeremy brought Alan home to Fullerton on  
May
22.

A link to the Cal Fullerton web site provides much more information:

http://campusapps.fullerton.edu/news/inside/2007/kaye.html


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 21 Jun 2007
From:kassem_wahba at yahoo.com
Subject:Alan Kaye

Dear Dil,
I am writing this brief note to let you know some sad news which I  
heared today.Alan Kaye has passed away on the May 31st from Cancer  
which was diagnosed on May 1st. I got am e-mail message today from  
Judith Gasparro.
He was such a good friend with me and many other people around in the  
Arabic field.
Regards
Kassem Wahba


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  21 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Sat Jun 23 21:25:16 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:25:16 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First
Message-ID: <SAT.23.JUN.2007.152516.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Sat 23 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:"Ola Moshref" <omoshref at gmail.com>
Subject:Colloquial First

The argument that teaching the spoken follows the natural order by
which native children learn their language is logical and attractive.  
It is
necessary to remember, however, the misery Arab children have in  
learning
the Standard variety of their own language. This is because the learning
does not provide a smooth shift between the two varieties. To  
consider this
fact is one key to resolving the conflict of how to teach Arabic as one
entity to foreigners.

If colloquial is taught first, how can we integrate the skills of  
reading,
writing, listening, and speaking necessary for effective language  
learning?
There is of course written material in colloquial ranging from  
advertisments
to poetry. However, there are problems like the absence of conventional
spelling for colloquial. We will train students to write in colloquial,
although when Arab children learn to write, they write Standard.  
Hence, we
will not be following the natural order in this respect. Since early
learining impacts later development, one question will be which  
variety is
more tolerent of interference from the other. The answer might very  
well be
different from one skill to the other.

The problem is that we are still partitioning the language. We have  
not yet
discovered the formula which describes its mutiple facets in simple
associations, and therefore be able to design a programme which  
progresses
not from colloquial to standard or vice vesa, but across both along  
higher
levels of acquisition.

Ola Moshref
TA - Linguisitics
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  23 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Sat Jun 23 21:25:18 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:25:18 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:GEN:Alan Kaye
Message-ID: <SAT.23.JUN.2007.152518.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Sat 23 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Alan Kaye

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:"John Joseph Colangelo" <yaacolangelo at hotmail.com>
Subject:Alan Kaye

I am deeply sorry for your loss.

John


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  23 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Sat Jun 23 21:25:19 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:25:19 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Syrian Arabic suggestions
Message-ID: <SAT.23.JUN.2007.152519.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Sat 23 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
2) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
3) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
4) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
5) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
6) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion
7) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From: Martine P?trod <martine.petrod at webspeed.dk>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Hi Omid,

You may want to take a look at:

Syrian Colloquial Arabic, a Functional Course by Mary-Jane Liddicoat,  
Richard Lennane and Dr Iman Abdul Rahim, 1998 ISBN 0-646-36958-X
Syrian Colloquial Arabic, a Functional Course is a 400-page  
illustrated and fully indexed textbook, accompanied by 180 minutes of  
authentic recorded conversations.

It can be dowloaded free of charge from:
http://syrianarabic.com/

Martine P?trod

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:"vuksan zecevic" <times12 at gmail.com>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Visit www.syrianarabic.com There you'll find what you are looking  
for,  the
textbook and audio material. It is completely free of charge.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
3)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From: "Jeremy Palmer" <jeremy.palmer at gmail.com>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

syrianarabic.com

Jeremy

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
4)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:"Allon Uhlmann" <uhlmanna at umsl.edu>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Omid,

This might work for you.
http://syrianarabic.com/downloads.html

Salamaat,
A.

Allon J. Uhlmann
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
University of Missouri - St. Louis
http://www.umsl.edu/~uhlmanna/

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
5)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:a elsherif <alarish5 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Hi Omid
There is a fantastic webbook you can download from   
www.syrianarabic.com  and it is free.
Good luck
ahmed elshareif.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
6)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:Raven at em.uni-frankfurt.de
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Of course, what you need you will find at http://syrianarabic.com/
Downloadable, with MP3.

Best wishes,
Wim Raven,

Dr. Wim Raven, Centrum f?r Nah- und Mittelost-Studien, Philipps  
Universit?t
Marburg
Post per Adresse: Semitistik, Wilhelm-R?pke-Stra?e 6F, 35032 Marburg
Besuchadresse: Wilhelm-R?pke-Stra?e 6D, Zimmer 713, Telefon:  
06421-2821305

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
7)
Date: 23 Jun 2007
From:"Jibreel Delgado" <jibreel.delgado at gmail.com>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

Dear Omid,

I would highly recommend the book, Syrian Colloquial Arabic by Mary-Jane
Liddicoat, Richard Lennane, and Iman Abdul Rahim witch also comes with
audio.

Hope this helps.

Jibreel Delgado
MA student, Applied Linguistics
University of South Florida

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  23 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:18 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:18 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Two Leeds Univ. jobs
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143318.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Two Leeds Univ. jobs

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:eric at comp.leeds.ac.uk
Subject:Two Leeds Univ. jobs

UNIVERSITY OF LEEDS, School of Modern Languages and Cultures

Dept of Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies

2 academic posts; deadline: 29 June 2007
     Teaching Fellow in Arabic and Islamic Studies (Job Ref: 316048)
     Lecturer in Middle Eastern Politics (Job Ref: 316047)

Further details: http://www.leeds.ac.uk/about/jobs/ -> Academic

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:14 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:14 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143314.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First
2) Subject:Colloquial First

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:Mustafa Mughazy <mustafa.mughazy at wmich.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First

Arabic is a diglossic language. This sentence can be found in at least
two of any three randomly picked papers on Arabic linguistics. Diglossia
is a fact, so we can exclude claims such as "colloquial dialects are not
Arabic" and "colloquial dialects do not have grammars", as simply
uninformed. It is very sad that digossia, which has dominated the field
for 50 years, has not yet found its place in the Arabic curriculum.

If we put ideologies aside, we can spare ourselves debating claims such
as "only pure Classical Arabic is worthy of teaching", "foreigners are
a3aajim who will never learn Arabic", "foreigners learn Arabic to read
the Quran and Classical texts", and "let's keep Orientalist foreigners
in the dark by teaching them something they cannot use". Debating such
unfortunate claims is an exercise in futility.

If we do a bit of research, we can also save ourselves the trouble of
refuting false claims such as "MSA is understood by all Arabs", "only
MSA is used in writing", and "colloquial Arabic is slang". We should not
take pride in claiming Arabic to be one of the most difficult languages
on earth. I once heard a teacher say "Arabic is so difficult even its
native speakers do not speak it well". That simply discourages students
to the point of giving up.

If we take the time to talk to our students, we will realize that they
sign up for Arabic classes for all sorts of reasons. Some take Arabic
because they have a language requirement and all Spanish classes are
full, some think it is cool, many want to connect with their heritage,
and most think it will enhance their career potentials. Our duty is to
provide Arabic the way it is, not the way we wish it was. Let's not
impose our ideologies on our students or judge them for not being little
Sibawayhs.

By the way, I do not know about Sibawayh, but I can assume that Ibn
Jinni spoke and learned a dialect first. Even Amir Al-shu3araa Ahmad
Shawqi who wrote poetry about fusHa (ana al-baHru .) always spoke in
colloquial Egyptian in the parliament. If you do not believe me, you can
see transcripts of his educated formal speeches for yourself.

Here is the logic: Arabic is a diglossic language; therefore, teaching
Arabic is teaching a diglossic language.

There are at least three ways to go about teaching diglossic Arabic: (a)
teach MSA first and then a dialect, (b) teach MSA and a dialect
simultaneously, and (c) teach colloquial first then MSA. The first two
options have been around for quite some time, and many people have
developed their curricula accordingly.

The discussion thus far has been quite productive and some very
important issues were raised:

  "If colloquial is taught first, how can we integrate the skills of
reading, writing, listening, and speaking necessary for effective
language learning?"

Integrating skills is a very attractive idea and it works well for ESL,
but I doubt we should expect that in Arabic. We have to integrate tasks
rather than language, so students can read in MSA and discuss in
Colloquial, listen to the news/documentaries in MSA and talk in the
Colloquial, or watch in the Colloquial and write in MSA. That is what
native speakers of Arabic do.

There are conventions for writing in colloquial; that is why we can read
it. The differences between MSA and Colloquial are minimal (the
pronunciation of five letters in the case of Egyptian). That is not more
complicated than the variations in MSA spelling across Arab countries.

Now the question I have been trying to avoid: which dialect to teach?
Any program can teach any dialect if they have teaching materials and
instructors who speak that dialect. There is no scientific support for
claiming that some dialects are "closer" to FusHa.

This is a very loaded question because it implies that instructors who
speak "popular" dialects will have better chances of employment. This is
a MYTH. We will always teach MSA and any dialect can be taught. We now
see increasing interest in Iraqi, Yemeni and Moroccan Arabic. Questions
like these are not helpful because they invoke nationalist and personal
biases toward or against dialects, or more specifically toward the
speakers of those dialects. Again, let's not allow ideological biases to
determine what our students learn.

Mustafa Mughazy

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
2)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:Abdulkafi Albirini <aalbirini at yahoo.com>
Subject:Colloquial First

This is an interesting discussion.

I believe there is something missing in the argument
for the colloquial first, which concerns students'
interests. My experience is that most students are not
learning Arabic just to speak it. In fact, many of
them want to have a comprehensive understanding of the
language and be able to use the language to read
different literary and scholarly texts as well as to
read the news. Moreover, the majority of the students
prefer to have a "language" that is understood across
the Arab world before they try to command a particular
dialect.

Thus, if we are to furnish our students with a better
and more comprehensive understanding of the Arabic
language (including the various skills of the
language), then we have to focus on the Standard
dialect first.

I recognize that there are some students who are
interested in commanding one dialect, who are a
minority among our students (or maybe the students
that I have taught thus far). For these students, we
can create courses that focus on these dialects.

Best

Abdulkafi Albirini
Coordinator of the Arabic Language Program at UIUC

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End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:24 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:24 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:another Syrian Arabic suggestion
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143324.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:"John Joseph Colangelo" <yaacolangelo at hotmail.com>
Subject:Syrian Arabic suggestion

This link is to a book I hve seen in the market written by Prof.  
Francisco Moscoso (Universidad de Cadiz): It?s a course in Moroccan  
dialect.
http://www.priceminister.es/offer/buy/21569158/Curso-De-Arabe- 
Marroqui-Dialogos-Gramatica-Ejercicios-Glosari-O-Libro.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:21 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:21 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Three FSI Arabic teaching jobs, Dept. of State
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143321.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
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            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Three FSI Arabic teaching jobs, Dept. of State

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From: "Bernhardt, James E" <BernhardtJE at state.gov>
Subject:Three FSI Arabic teaching jobs, Dept. of State

Colleagues,  FSI is pleased to announce three jobs for entry-level  
Arabic language teachers!  For those with a love of teaching but with  
little or no experience, this may be the right opportunity!

The following job vacancy is open to all U.S. citizens and Non- 
Citizens as allowed by appropriations and statute.
If interested, you can access a full copy of the vacancy announcement  
on the internet at:
http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=59091084&AVSDM=2007% 
2D06%2D20+15%3A28%3A02&Logo=0&pg=3&jts=NOT%20iraq&jbf513=NOT% 
20REE**&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&jbf574=ST00&lid=316&sort=rv&vw=d&brd=3876&ss=0 
&caller=/a9st00.asp
Applicants are encouraged to apply online.
Series/Grade:  GG-1712-05/07
Title:    Language Instructor (Arabic)
Office:  FSI/SLS/NEA
Announcement:  FSI 07-20
Opening:  06/20/2007
Closing:  07/12/2007
Number of Openings: 3

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From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:19 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:19 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:PEDA:Wants advice about Arabic study in Yemen
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143319.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
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            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Wants advice about Arabic study in Yemen

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:"Shoaib Memon" <majnoonx at gmail.com>
Subject:Wants advice about Arabic study in Yemen

Hello,

I am planning on studying in Yemen for a few months, starting  
sometime  in
August, my current level is intermediate.

I was wondering if any members of the listserv can share any experiences
that they've had studying in yemen, specifically about the quality of  
the
institutes there(especially, the two that I am aware of, CALES and  
SIAL).
Also, apart from the institutes, if anyone knows any good private
tutors/teachers there for arabic, as well as calligraphy, I'd be very
grateful for that information.

Thank you,
shoaib

majnoonx at gmail.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:16 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:16 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:AD:Books from Gerlach available
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143316.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
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            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Books from Gerlach available

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:antiqua at gerlach-books.de
Subject:Books from Gerlach available

We have a few single copies of mostly out of print antiquarian books  
on Middle Eastern studies.
This offer is valid until 6 July 2007 only. Prepayment required.
We sell on a first come, first served basis.

best regards from Berlin,

Kai-H. Gerlach


(1)
1 Set Only
Bibliotheca Islamica - Biographic Dictionary of Salahaddin Halil Ibn  
Aibak As-Safadi (Arabic text edition): 14 volumes
Publisher: Steiner Verlag, Stuttgart (German Orient Institute Beirut)
Publication date: 1949 - 1983
MOST VOLUMES OUT OF PRINT
*** Special price: EUR 1100 ***
Including FREE surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Plus European VAT if applicable.

(2)
1 Set Only
Bibliotheca Islamica - Die Chronik des Ibn Ijas: Bada'i' az-zuhur fi  
waqa'i' ad-duhur (Arabic text edition): 7 volumes
Publisher: Steiner Verlag, Stuttgart (German Orient Institute Beirut)
Publication date: 1945 - 1975
MOST VOLUMES OUT OF PRINT
*** Special price: EUR 725 ***
Including FREE surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Plus European VAT if applicable.

(3)
1 Set Only
Documents on British Foreign Policy (Focus on the Middle East  
politics): 14 volumes
Publisher: Her Majesty's Stationery Office (HMSO) / The Stationery  
Office (TSO)
Publication date: 1928 - 1976
OUT OF PRINT
*** Special price: EUR 1600 ***
Including FREE surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Plus European VAT if applicable.


(4)
1 Set Only
The Arab-Israeli Conflict in Israeli History, Textbooks 1948-2000: 5  
volumes
Editor: John Norton Moore
Publisher: Princeton University Press
Publication date: 1974 - 1991
OUT OF PRINT
*** Special price: EUR 475 ***
Including FREE surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Plus European VAT if applicable.


(5)
1 Set Only
Brockelmann - Geschichte der Arabischen Litteratur : 5 volumes
Author: Carl Brockelmann
Publisher: Brill
Publication date: 1937 - 1949
Current list price: EUR 620
*** Our price: EUR 450 ***
Including FREE surface mail delivery (airmail upon request)
Plus European VAT if applicable.

*********************************************
KAI-HENNING GERLACH - BOOKS & ONLINE
Middle Eastern & Islamic Studies

D-10711 Berlin, Germany
Heilbronner Stra?e 10
Telefon +49 30 3249441
Telefax +49 30 3235667
e-mail khg at gerlach-books.de
www.gerlach-books.de

USt/VAT No. DE 185 061 373
Verkehrs-Nr. 24795 (BAG)
EAN 4330931247950

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
End of Arabic-L:  27 Jun 2007


From dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 20:33:22 2007
From: dilworth_parkinson at BYU.EDU (Dilworth Parkinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:33:22 -0600
Subject: Arabic-L:GEN:problem with Arabic in XP
Message-ID: <WED.27.JUN.2007.143322.0600.ARABICL@LISTSERV.BYU.EDU>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Jun 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:problem with Arabic in XP

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 27 Jun 2007
From:Jan Hoogland <j.hoogland at let.ru.nl>
Subject:problem with Arabic in XP

Dear colleagues,

I?m having a problem with reusing an old database containing dictionary
data.

The database is in Borland Interbase format and was produced between  
1997 en
2003 with Arabic enabled Windows 98.

Since the dictionary now needs to be updated, I installed the old  
database
programme and opened the database.

To my disappointment the Arabic in the database is shown as garbage.

Then I installed Windows 98 under MS Virtual PC, but with the same  
problem:
the Arabic data in the database can not be recognized as Arabic.  
However,
this time it?s different garbage (but still garbage).

XP-garbage:

To give you just one example, the word kit?b (kaf-kasra-ta-alif-ba)  
is shown
as: #oECE

And it seems the number of Arabic characters is reduced to just a few:
#oECaoOuUIi (see example 1 below)

Win98/Virtual PC garbage:

Since I can?t transfer files easily from the Virtual PC environment  
it is a
bit more complicated to show an example.

The word kit?b (kaf-kasra-ta-alif-ba) is shown as: shin-?-zay-?-lam, or
maybe in reverse order it?s not clear if it?s RTL or LTR (so there are
Arabic characters but garbage shows up as well).

Does anyone have any suggestions how to solve this problem?

The ultimate solution would be a PC running with only Arabic enabled  
Win98
of course, but I hoped to avoid this solution since Win98 is no longer
supported by our technical people and it would be more difficult to use
remote desktop etc.

Thanks for your help.

Jan

===

Example 1 from the database in XP:

#oECE <aoOuEaU> boek [Ca#oECE Caao#oIooO] bijbel, het boek der boeken,
Schrift; [Ca#oECE CaaoEia] (=> aoEia); [Ca#oECE Ca#oNia] {het Heilige  
Boek,
de koran}; [ICAo Yi Ca#oECEo Caao#oIooOo] in de bijbel staan; [EoaC aoa
Ca#oECEo Caao#oIooOo] voorlezen uit de bijbel; [ao#uOoU aoa Ca#oECEo
Caao#oIooOo] bijbeltekst; [#oECE Ooioo# \ IoiooI] een boeiend/goed boek;
[#oECE Caaao] {Gods boek, de koran}; [#oECE OoEuIo] kookboek; [#oEoE  
NoIiOE
\ aCIoNE \ NCAoIE] goedkope/zeldzame/populaire titels; [


Jan (Abu Samir) Hoogland
Dept. of Arabic, University of Nijmegen
POB 9103, 6500 HD Nijmegen, the Netherlands
phone (0)24-3612641, residence: (0)24-3550199, mobile:(0)653652861
mobile in Morocco/GSM au Maroc: +-212-(0)79 146312
fax: (0)24-3500719
mail:  <mailto:j.hoogland at let.ru.nl> j.hoogland at let.ru.nl
personal website:  <http://www.janhoogland.com> www.janhoogland.com
Arabic dictionary project website:  <http://www.let.ru.nl/wba>
www.let.ru.nl/wba
website Nederlands Instituut in Marokko:  <http://www.ru.nl/NIMAR>
www.ru.nl/NIMAR

weblog: http://janhoogland.blogspot.com

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--
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