Arabic-L:LING:grammar query responses

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Mon 05 May 2008
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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1) Subject:grammar query responses
2) Subject:grammar query responses
3) Subject:grammar query responses
4) Subject:grammar query responses
5) Subject:grammar query responses
6) Subject:grammar query responses

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1)
Date: 05 May 2008
From:"Andrew Freeman" <andyf at u.washington.edu>
Subject:grammar query responses

I think that with the second item what we’re seeing is that names no  
longer under case marking even in “Standard Arabic.”  I believe  
there was a judgment passed by an institute in Egypt in the 1920’s in  
that regard.
Thus $aahadt-tu muHammad, not $aahadt-tu muHammadan

Cheers,
Andy

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2)
Date: 05 May 2008
From:"Waheed Samy" <wasamy at umich.edu>
Subject:grammar query responses

Concerning شركة التطوير والاستثمار السياحي  
sharikat at-taTwiir w al-istithmaar as-siyaahiyy:
= narrowly: The Company of/for Development and Touristic Investment.
The adjective modifies Investment, as a consequence it cannot be  
feminine; it agrees with the noun in definiteness and in case: as- 
siyaahiyyi.

Concerning شركة بترول أبو ظبي, although Abu is in the  
genitive case, and consequently should be written Abi, it is  
nevertheless written Abu because of a convention according to which  
proper nouns and titles are often left in the default nominative case.

Waheed

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3)
Date: 05 May 2008
From: "Schub, Michael B." <Michael.Schub at trincoll.edu>
Subject:grammar query responses

Hi,
     The first example is a hendiadys, i.e. a pair of synonyms to  
describe 'one notion,' e.g.  'was [not "were"] your bread and butter  
good?'  'null and void', 'good and proper' are other examples.  in  
other words  /al-taTwiir-wal-istithmaar/  is considered a singular  
(noun) unit, so the singular masc. nisba noun is correct.  It should  
be noted that given the vastness of the Arabic vocabulary, synonyms  
are very easy to find, AND THUS CONSTRUCTIONS OF THIS TYPE ARE GROWING  
EXPONENTIALLY IN MSA.  Such phrases are usually best translated into  
English as noun-adjective constructions, e.g.  /tadmiir-wa-taHliil/   
~  'utter devastation'.
    No one even WRITES 'Abi Dhabi'.  The form is frozen, as it is with  
many names, such as MSA  /yaa  Abuu  Bakr/  for Classical  /yaa  Abaa   
Bakr/  ~ 'Hey, Abu Bakr.'  This has become an 'benchmark' for the  
level of Arabic one is speaking or writing, as many educated Arabs  
ignore the rules of the 'Five Nouns' before ignoring others (in my  
limited experience).  I have even seen /ab#  al-masraH  al-gharbii/   
~  'father of the Occidental theater' in a respected publication.
     Best wishes,
                                                          Mike Schub

Dear Dil,
      if you'd like to add another example on my recent note on  
hendyades:  /lubb-wa-jawhar  al-qaDiyya/  ~
'the quintessential nature of the problem'.  Many thanks,
                                                                                                ms

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4)
Date: 05 May 2008
From:nagwa hedayet <nhedayet at yahoo.com>
Subject:grammar query responses

Hi Jonathan,
1-Both tatweer and istethmar are masculine singular nouns and for the  
sake of having easy and understood company name, the adjective is  
singular masculine that describes each noun at the end in stead of the  
dual.
2- Yes, as you say Abu Dhabi is one unit because it is the city name.

wa Llaahu 'alam

salam to all.

Nagwa

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5)
Date: 05 May 2008
From:Mai Zaki" <maizaki at gmail.com>
Subject:grammar query responses

Hi Jonathan,

In regards to your first query, it seems to be a classic case of  
syntactic ambiguity where the adjective can be modifying one or two  
nouns. I've seen this many times in the titles of companies and  
authorities. I think, strictly grammatically speaking, and given that  
it makes sense that the adjective actually modifies both nouns, it  
should be "as-siyahiyayn" as you suggested, but from what I've seen in  
my native country Egypt, no one wants to use the dual form which is  
considered to be very formal and heavy on the ears so they just use  
the singular form.  As for the adjective "as-siyahiya", I don't think  
it works here because it would be modifying the first noun "sharikat"  
which would be giving a misleading meaning.

As for the second query, I think "Abu Dhabi" has been considered as a  
fixed unit for a long time.. personally, I have never seen it said/ 
written as anything else (Abi or Aba).

Hope this helps.

Mai

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6)
Date: 05 May 2008
From: "Madiha Doss" <madihadoss at yahoo.com>
Subject:grammar query responses

The dual form for siyahi, and the gentive form for the name of the  
country would be the "normatively correct" forms, however I would  
think that in the two cases these forms would be percieved as too  
pedantic, amd their replacement by the less correct is favoured for  
casual usages of language.
There are even more "serious"cases of incorrect usage, I have just  
witnessed a particular one: an examination sheet on which university  
staff should write their questions was headed by the term sa'atayn  
(two hours) for the time of examination!

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End of Arabic-L:  05 May 2008