Arabic-L:LING:already

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Mon 05 May 2008
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:already
2) Subject:already
3) Subject:already
4) Subject:already

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1)
Date: 05 May 2008
From:"Schub, Michael B." <Michael.Schub at trincoll.edu>
Subject:already

here are a few 'Qur'an already' verses, e.g. Q12.77:  /in  yasriq  fa- 
qad  saraqa  akhun  la-hu  min  qablu/  ~
"If he has stolen, [well no wonder!], a brother of his has already  
stolen."
                                                                  Mike  
Schub

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2)
Date: 05 May 2008
From:Afra Al-Mussawir <afraalmussawir at yahoo.com>
Subject:already

I don't use a verb to signify "already," but will use "qad" for the  
same meaning, e.g.

ishteraytu akla 'ala l-tareeq, walakin lama wasaltu il-bayt wajadtu  
anahum qad akalaw.

Forgive my weird transliteration. I was trying to convey:
إشتريت أكلة على الطريق ولكن لما وصلت  
البيت وجدت أنهم قد أكلوا
I bought food on the way home, but when I got there I found they'd  
already eaten.

For the question "have you already forgotten?" I would say:
qad nasayta? (using inflection to indicate the interrogative)
قد نسيت؟

I could also see using "haleeyan" for the purpose:
nasayta haleeyan? or haleeyan nasayta?
نسيت حالياً؟ حالياً نسيت؟
though that doesn't convey the exact same meaning (just as any  
translation wouldn't)

Also keep in mind that I'm much more familiar with Iraqi and Jordanian  
dialects than anything else, so this usage may be more dialect than  
fusha.

Afra Al-Mussawir

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3)
Date: 05 May 2008
From:"George Marquis" <geomarq at aucegypt.edu>
Subject:already

I’d like to add my perspective to this discussion.

“Already” in English is difficult to translate because it not only  
has a meaning, but an implication. The implication is that the person  
who made the previous utterance had presupposed incorrectly:

                 A: We’re just about to have lunch. Come [to] have  
something to eat with us.   ( A presumed that B hadn’t yet eaten)
                 B: Thanks, [but] I’ve already eaten.

So, one would have to ask if on the lexical plane, this quality  
existed in the meaning of a word in Arabic, either in one of the  
“3amiyaat” or in “fuSha” because if one translated the exchange  
above, B would not have used لحق  in his reply.

As for إنت لحقت تنسى؟   or, perhaps more commonly in  
Cairene “street” Egyptian followed by a past tense verb           
إنت لحقت جبت؟     I don’t know if we can isolate one part  
of this phrase, and claim that it equates with “already” in  
English.  To me the use of لحق in the phrase implies that the person  
asking the question knows that the respondent is busy and probably  
hasn’t had the time yet to do the action described by the following  
verb. So, its use is sort of as a reminder to the respondent that the  
one asking is still waiting. I would translate لحق in this phrase as  
“ found the time yet to”
Sometimes I feel that ‘already” is expressed in Egyptian by  
“لاقيت” + past tense of following verb,  as in      "رحت  
له اللبيت لاقيته نزل"
“I went to his place, but found that he had [already] left.”   (not  
the literal translation)
Otherwise, I don’t feel that Egyptian expresses “already”  
lexically. It might do it in other ways, such as with intonationو as  
in ما خلاص!"”  . I think that is why “already” has become  
part of the educated Egyptian’s native dialect.   Egyptians who know  
some English use “already” in Arabic speech as if it were an Arabic  
word. Perhaps it fills a lexical need that isn’t filled by Arabic.

George Marquis
Instructor and  Writing Workshop Coordinator
Dept. of Rhetoric and Composition
American University in Cairo
Office: 02-2797-5725
Email: geomarq at aucegypt.edu

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4)
Date: 05 May 2008
From:Hamdi Yasin <hamdi.yasin at yahoo.com>
Subject:already

About ALREADY:
I would think  " lil-taw "  "للتو "   prounounced  "littaw" would  
convey the meaning of ALREADY  or JUST and it's use is comparable to   
the present perfect in English to express an event that has JUST begun  
or finished for that matter but the expression and the actual event  
have to be proximate.


It just started raining:
لقد بدأت تمطر للتو    [laqad bada‚at tomTir  lil-taw]
It just rained (and finished already):
  لقد أمطرت للتو
laqad amTarat lil-taw

Salaam,
Hamdi Yasin
Saint Xavier University

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End of Arabic-L:  05 May 2008