Arabic-L:GEN:lentils

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Thu 11 Feb 2010
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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1) Subject:lentils
2) Subject:lentils
3) Subject:lentils
4) Subject:lentils
5) Subject:lentils
6) Subject:lentils
7) Subject:lentils
8) Subject:lentils

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1)
Date: 11 Feb 2010
From:"Familiar, Laila H" <laila at austin.utexas.edu>
Subject:lentils

Hello Maurice,
In Egypt they say:
 
اللي ما يعرفش يقول عدس
 
Laila

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2)
Date: 11 Feb 2010
From:Alexis Neme <alexis.neme at gmail.com>
Subject:lentils

Yes, I heard it with the variant "yalli biya3rif biya3rif wu yalli maa biya3rif ... "

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3)
Date: 11 Feb 2010
From: "AWEISS,SALEM I" <saweiss at ufl.edu>
Subject:lentils

greetings

the story in the palestinian context goes as follows (at least the 
version i know):

a man had a young daughter who was secretly meeting her boyfriend 
in the barn. one day the father shows up unexpectedly and the 
young man had to run away in a hurry and in the process had some 
lentils (probably before being crushed/ground) in his had. and as 
he was running away and the father pursuing him, the village 
residents were surprised to see the man chasing the young man 
because of a handful of lentils. the father's response was.....he 
who knows, knows....

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4)
Date: 11 Feb 2010
From:"Amin, Nesrin" <N.Amin at exeter.ac.uk>
Subject:lentils

Hi Maurice,
 
The Egyptian version I am familiar with is: “Illi ma ye’rafsh ye’oul ads” (He who doesn’t know says lentils). I had never thought about the story behind it before! However, here’s a more detailed explanation from the book “Language and culture in the Near East” by Shlomo Izre’el and Rina Drory (the rest of this message is a quote found on Google books):
 
“This proverb exists in Arabic, Kurdish, and Neo-Aramaic (…) Arabic versions of it have been collected from Iraq to Libya (e.g. Bazargan 1983:107; Feghali 1938:164; Panetta 1941:271[23]). A typical Iraqi Arabic version of the proverb is as follows:
Il-yidri yidri wil-ma yidri gadbit adas (The one who knows knows and the one not knows handful of lentils).
There is a story behind this proverb, which one must know in order to fully understand it. Sabar’s explanation of it is short and to the point, so I will quote him:
-          Taken from a folktale about a man whose wife betrayed him with her lover in a lentil field. When the angry husband watned to kill the lover, he [=the lover] shouted, “Help, he wants to kill me for stealing a handful of lentils”. (Sabar 1978:221)
There is some variation in the story: in some versions, the husband catches the guilty man in the act of killing rather than fornicating. (…) To quote Barakat, “One may use the proverb to those who think you are angry for some trivial reason, but, in reality, the reason is much more serious” (Barakat 1980:27). This usage is common to Arabs, Kurds and at least Jewish speakers of NENA (Segal 1955:26)”
 
Nesrin Amin
 
Teaching Fellow
University of Exeter

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5)
Date: 11 Feb 2010
From:Srpko Lestaric <srpkole at eunet.rs>
Subject:lentils

Dear Maurice,
 
The proverb might be well known as you say, but this is my first to see it out of the Iraqi contexts. The version of the story I know is, then, in the Iraqi colloquial as has been recorded and reported of by Bruno Meissner (1868−1947). The proverb itself reads: el-yedri yedri wa-l-ma yedri ghaDbat 3ades. You can find it precisely transliterated and well translated into German as the very first tale in: Bruno Meißner, Ne u a ra bische Geschic hten aus dem Iraq – ge sam melt, über setzt, he ra us ge ge ben und mit einem er we i te r ten Glos sar ver se hen. Leipzig 1903. I myself have translated 15 of the tales from that compilation into Serbian and published them twice in two literary periodicals, furnished with a longish afterword on the Iraqi lore, on Meissner and his work.
 
I don't really know how will it get in here, but let me try to give you and the other colleagues the text in the Arabic script. It follows:
 
مثل يگولون اليدري يدري والمايدري گضبة عدس حچاية هاذا المثل فرد واحد عنده زرع عدس هو ومرته جاعدين يشلعون بيه فعگب ذالك صار هلچان الزوج فراح للماي يشرب والماي جريب عليه فلمّن شرب ورد فشاف فرد رجال غريب ينيچ ابمرته فلمّن شافه عنده سيف فشمط السيف وهد عالرجال الغريب هذاك الرجال لمن شافه شامط سيفه وأجى عليه گام من عالحرمه وأخذ گضبة عدس وانهزم فشافه رجال يمشي بالدرب فگالّه يا رجال ليش تركض فگال يا أخويه أخذت گضبة عدس من زرع هاذا اليركض وراي وهو شمط سيفه عليّ والحگني يكتلني من طرف العدس فآني أركض وهو يركض هاذي قضيتي يا أخويه فلمّن سمع هاذا الكلام رد!
  على صاحب الزرع فگالّه عيب عليك تركض ورا رجال وتريد تكتله من طرف گضبة عدس فگال صاحب الزرع اليدري يدري والمايدري گضبة عدس فرد على مرته فكتلها من سبب ناچها الرجال الغريب فهاذا معنى هالمثل
Best,

Srpko Leštarić
Vinogradski venac 12   
11030 Beograd, Serbia
Home:  +381 11 250 7588 
Office:  +381 11 222 4438 
Mobile: +381 63 173 6868
E-mail: srpkole at eunet.rs

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6)
Date: 11 Feb 2010
From:Mai Zaki <maizaki at gmail.com>
Subject:lentils

Hi Maurice,

In Egypt we say اللي ما يعرفش يقول عدس because عدس  is very common and is probably going to be the answer to many things :)

Mai Zaki

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7)
Date: 11 Feb 2010
From:Sahar Abdel Gawwad <saharmhy at aucegypt.edu>
Subject:lentils

هناك مثل دارج فى العاميـة وهو " اللى ما يعرفش يقول عدس"

Hope it helps. Thank you

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8)
Date: 11 Feb 2010
From:rehab eldeeb <r_eldeeb at aucegypt.edu>
Subject:lentils

We say in Egypt 
اللي ما يعرفش يقول عدس
As I understand it , it means that the one who does not know will say anything.
I checked in a book of proverbs by Ahmed taymour Pasha and it explains this proverb :
The one who does not know thinks that the food is :عدس and it is not . This is said to the one who judges on something that s/he does not know the truth and builds consequences on what seems to be and not onreal  facts .
Hopethis will help 
Rehab El Deeb 
Arabic Language Instructor 
AUC  

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End of Arabic-L:  11 Feb 2010