<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Arabic-L: Thu 08 Feb 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <<A href="mailto:dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu">dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[To post messages to the list, send them to <A href="mailto:arabic-l@byu.edu">arabic-l@byu.edu</A>]</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:listserv@byu.edu">listserv@byu.edu</A> with first line reading:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> unsubscribe arabic-l ]</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-------------------------Directory------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1) Subject:Venice</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2) Subject:Venice</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3) Subject:Venice</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 08 Feb 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:"Mohammed Sawaie" <<A href="mailto:ms@cms.mail.virginia.edu">ms@cms.mail.virginia.edu</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Venice</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">How about Wendig (sp?) via Turkish? ms</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 08 Feb 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:"<B> </B>Dwight Reynolds <<A href="mailto:dreynold@religion.ucsb.edu">dreynold@religion.ucsb.edu</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Venice</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The Germanic name of Venice is "Venedig" -- transliterated into Arabic that renders <b-n-d-q></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> --DR--</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 08 Feb 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:"Dr. M Deeb" <<A href="mailto:muhammaddeeb@gmail.com">muhammaddeeb@gmail.com</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Venice</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Arabic and related sources fall shy of any decisive etymology of (البندقية). Let's have a close look at the raw material:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>(1) Lane suggests a link between Venice (البندقية ) and garments made of fine delicate cloth known as (بندقيً). </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>(2) Al-Mu'jam al-Wasi:T defines (بندقيً) as venetian gold procured from Italian cities.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>(3) Abu 'l-Fida:a, in Taqwi:m al-Bulda:n (ed. Reinaud and de Slane, Paris, 1840),</DIV><DIV>states that Venetians were allowed to establish special markets with inns /فنادق/</DIV><DIV>at Alexandria. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Could the Arabic word (فندق ) provide a clue</DIV><DIV>to Venice's nomenclature in Arabic, bearing in mind that the word /funduq/ is borrowed from Greek "pondokeion"?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Further, the relative form (بندقيً), which is the Arabic version of Venetian, comes from the Byzantine Greek term /venetikos/.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>(3) The Encyclopedia of Islam (new edn.) posits a military origin, thus Al-Bunduqiyya is cross-referred to Ba:ru:d (gunpowder). I'll quote below the relevant part:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The fact that a considerable traffic of arms was</DIV><DIV>conducted [in the Mamlu:k era] by Venice (in Arabic al-Bunduqiyya) might also have contributed to the choice of the term bunduqiyya.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The two latter likely etymologies of the EI and Taqwi:m al-Bulda:n may have some weight on the ground that Venice, with its</DIV><DIV>diplomatic leverage, arsenal and daunting fleet, at the time, was a superior military power in the Mediterranean. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Be that as it may, all given etymological</DIV><DIV>information, varying from bullets, guns, gold to clothes and hazelnuts, is based largely on mere assumptions. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>PS:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Incidentally, the German for Venice is /benedig/, which sounds very close to the Arabic name of the Italian republic, but the linguistic and diplomatic relations between medieval Arabs and</DIV><DIV>Germans are far fetched.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>---------------------------------</DIV><DIV>*MD</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> [here is the formatted version: --dil]</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Arabic and related sources fall shy of any decisive etymology of (</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><B>البندقية</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">). Let's have a close look at the raw material:</SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">(1) Lane suggests a link between Venice (</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><B>البندقية</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> )</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="6"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 24px;"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">and garments made of fine delicate cloth known as (</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><B>بندقيً</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">). </SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">(2) </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; text-decoration: underline;">Al-Mu'jam al-Wasi:T</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> defines (</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><B>بندقي</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">ً) as venetian gold procured from Italian cities.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">(3) Abu 'l-Fida:a, in </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; text-decoration: underline;">Taqwi:m al-Bulda:n</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> (ed. Reinaud and de Slane, Paris, 1840),</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">states that Venetians were allowed to establish special markets with </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; text-decoration: underline;">inns</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> /</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><B>فنادق</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">/</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">at Alexandria. </SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Could the Arabic word (فندق</SPAN></FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">) provide a clue</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">to Venice's nomenclature in Arabic, bearing in mind that the word /funduq/ is borrowed from Greek "pondokeion"?</SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Further, the relative form (</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><B>بندقيً</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">), which is the Arabic version of Venetian, comes from the Byzantine Greek term /venetikos/.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">(3) </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; text-decoration: underline;">The Encyclopedia of Islam</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> (new edn.) posits a military origin, thus </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><B>Al-Bunduqiyya</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> is cross-referred to </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><B>Ba:ru:d</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> (gunpowder). I'll quote below the relevant part:</SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px;">The fact that a considerable traffic of arms was</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px;">conducted [in the Mamlu:k era] by Venice (in Arabic </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px;"><I>al-Bunduqiyya</I></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px;">) might also have contributed to the choice of the term </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px;"><I>bunduqiyya</I></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px;">.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">The two latter likely etymologies of the </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; text-decoration: underline;">EI </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">and </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; text-decoration: underline;">Taqwi:m al-Bulda:n</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> may have some weight on the ground that Venice, with its</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">diplomatic leverage, arsenal and daunting fleet, at the time, was a superior military power in the Mediterranean. </SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Be that as it may, all given etymological</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">information, varying from bullets, guns, gold to clothes and hazelnuts, is based largely on mere assumptions. </SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; text-decoration: underline;">PS</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">:</SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Incidentally, the German for Venice is /benedig/, which sounds very close to the Arabic name of the Italian republic, but the linguistic and diplomatic relations between medieval Arabs and</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Germans are far fetched.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">---------------------------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">*MD</SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">End of Arabic-L: 08 Feb 2007</DIV></BODY></HTML>