<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Arabic-L: Wed 13 Jun 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <<A href="mailto:dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu">dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[To post messages to the list, send them to <A href="mailto:arabic-l@byu.edu">arabic-l@byu.edu</A>]</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:listserv@byu.edu">listserv@byu.edu</A> with first line reading:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> unsubscribe arabic-l ]</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-------------------------Directory------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1) Subject:Plurals</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2) Subject:Plurals</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3) Subject:Plurals</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 13 Jun 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:"haider bhuiyan" <<A href="mailto:haider.bhuiyan.2@m.cc.utah.edu">haider.bhuiyan.2@m.cc.utah.edu</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Plurals</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Peace to all:</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Out of the three observations, I would like to make a point about the observation (1). </DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I think here the rule is of situation/condition/position which in Arabic called <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">حال</FONT> , not of plural of any kind. Please note, in the verse 7:160 the word at question is <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباطا</FONT> not <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباط</FONT> shown in the question as plural. The word <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباطا</FONT> may be analyzed this way: <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباط</FONT> is plural of <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">سبط</FONT> that does not take <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">،ا،</FONT> but this plural noun has one. Why? Because this <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">،ا،</FONT> is independent of the original plural noun <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباط</FONT> and it is the <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">،ا،</FONT> of situational structure of the sentence called <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">حال</FONT> . I hope I am making some sense.</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Best regard</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Haider Bhuiyan</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On the "broken plurals," my colleague, Dr. Schub, raises a few probing questions:</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(1) He wonders why the plural / <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباط</FONT> / is used instead of the singular / <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">سبط</FONT> / in the qur'anic verse: / <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">وقطّعناهم</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">اثنتي</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">عشرة</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباطا</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أمما</FONT> /, VII: 160. </DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I'm afraid there is no violation of the grammatical code here. We are to be alerted that / <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباطا</FONT> / is not a noun of distinction /<FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">تمييز</FONT> /; rather, it is a noun in apposition / <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">بدل</FONT> / to the number / <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">اثنتي</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">عشرة</FONT> /. As a relevant detail, may I add that even the masculine singular / <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">سبط</FONT> / would not fit as a noun of distinction after the feminine composite number / <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">اثنتي</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">عشرة</FONT> /. Exegetes and grammarians construe the verse as:</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">/ <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">اثنتي</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">عشرة</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">،</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباطا</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أمما </FONT> [ <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">فرقا</FONT>] <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">قطّعناهم</FONT> /.</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Incidentally, the word / <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">سبط</FONT> / has / <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">سُبطان</FONT> / as another, yet rarely used, plural of abundance.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 13 Jun 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:"Schub, Michael B." <<A href="mailto:Michael.Schub@trincoll.edu">Michael.Schub@trincoll.edu</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Plurals</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; ">no one should have to sacrifice the dearest of his own family, even for the sublimities and profundities of Arabic grammar.... ms</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 13 Jun 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:"Dr. M Deeb" <<A href="mailto:muhammaddeeb@gmail.com">muhammaddeeb@gmail.com</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Plurals</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The qur'anic text in my response to Dr. Schub turned out in a jumbled form, thus defeating the basic argument.</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> (1) This was the way it was posted last time:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> ---------------------------------------------</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">/ <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">اثنتي</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">عشرة</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">،</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباطا</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أمما </FONT> [ <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">فرقا</FONT>] <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">قطّعناهم</FONT>/</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">----------------------------------------------</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(2) This is how exegetes and grammarians construe the verse in question:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> ---------------------------------------------</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">/ <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">قطعناهم</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">اثنتي</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">عشرة </FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">ـ</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">فِرقا ـ </FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">أسباطا</FONT> <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">امما </FONT>/</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">---------------------------------------------</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(3) Much as I loathe it, a transliteration may be the next best thing to the Arabic script. Here it is in the case of any electronic glitch:</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[qaTTa'naahum ithnatay 'ashrata</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- firaqan -, </DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">asbaaTan 'umaman]. </DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Appreciating your patience,</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">*MD</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"> </P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">End of Arabic-L: 13 Jun 2007</DIV></BODY></HTML>