<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Arabic-L: Mon 03 Sep 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <<A href="mailto:dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu">dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[To post messages to the list, send them to <A href="mailto:arabic-l@byu.edu">arabic-l@byu.edu</A>]</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:listserv@byu.edu">listserv@byu.edu</A> with first line reading:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> unsubscribe arabic-l ]</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-------------------------Directory------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1) Subject:ja‘ala+ object+verb</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2) Subject:ja‘ala+ object+verb</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 03 Sep 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:Waheed Samy <<A href="mailto:wasamy@umich.edu">wasamy@umich.edu</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:ja‘ala+ object+verb</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I am quite comfortable with the verb <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">جعل </FONT>followed by a <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">مضارع</FONT>, which is used to mean to make someone do something. I don't think it's something new; at least in Egyptian Arabic there is the extremely common equivalent with khalla <FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geeza Pro">خلاّ / خلّى.</FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Geeza Pro; min-height: 15px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Waheed</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 03 Sep 2007</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:"Dr. M Deeb" <<A href="mailto:muhammaddeeb@gmail.com">muhammaddeeb@gmail.com</A>></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:ja‘ala+ object+verb</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV>Purists Arabs and Arabists (among whom I count myself) would object to the</DIV><DIV>structure of (ja'ala + object + verb) as it falls beyond the range of the</DIV><DIV>verb's classical senses and applications: (1) an ordinary doubly transitive</DIV><DIV>verb; (2) one of a cluster commonly known as "appropinquation verbs" ( أفعال</DIV><DIV>المقاربة /af'aal al- muqaarabah), for which we use a simpler term, i.e.,</DIV><DIV>inceptive verbs; (3) a member of another cluster called ( أفعال القلوب /</DIV><DIV>af'aal al-quluub), denoting mental perception (as contrasted to physical).</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>To cut otiosity, Michael Schub turns (ja'altuh yafham) into (afhamtuh).</DIV><DIV>This correct short-hand structure is probably easy with some, but not all,</DIV><DIV>triliteral verbs, and increasingly difficult with derived verbal</DIV><DIV>forms. Examples of (a) a triliteral verb: (ja'altuh yashkuruni),</DIV><DIV>(muHaaDaratii ja'alat aT-Tullaab yu'jabuun bi T.S. Eliot), (b) derived</DIV><DIV>forms: iHtilaalu al-'iraaqi ja'ala al-'aalama yastankiru ad-dimuqraatiyyat</DIV><DIV>al-amriiikiyyah). Here is the Arabic, if it survives electronic garbling:</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>(جعلته يشكرني)</DIV><DIV> ( محاضراتي جعلت الطلاب يُعجبون بإليوت)</DIV><DIV>( احتلال العراق جعل العالم يستنكر الديموقراطية الأمريكية )</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Mike's paradigm of "afhamtuh," in lieu of ("ja'altuhu yafham) would not help</DIV><DIV>much here, even if one uses circuitous structures. Such difficulties must</DIV><DIV>have prompted old practitioners of Arabic to coin this convenient and</DIV><DIV>serviceable structure. Apart from grammar, the structure in question is</DIV><DIV>not untenable on semantic grounds, if one construes "ja'alahu yafham" as</DIV><DIV>"Sayyarahu qaadiran 'ala al-fahm," being it understood that the sense of</DIV><DIV>"Sayyara" (to induce s.o. to become s.o. or sth. else) is inherent in verb</DIV><DIV>"ja'ala."</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Without defending the structure "ja'ala + object + verb," I would argue that</DIV><DIV>there is a not too subtle distinction between "ja'altuhu yafham" and</DIV><DIV>"afhamtuhu." The former entails an effort and probably time for making him</DIV><DIV>understand whereas the latter takes little or no effort in the process.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Finally, for what it is worth, Hans Wehr, like most lexicographers, records</DIV><DIV>this register without any comment.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>MD</DIV><DIV>-- </DIV><DIV>M. Deeb</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">End of Arabic-L: 03 Sep 2007</DIV></BODY></HTML>