<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Arabic-L: Tue 08 Apr 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <<a href="mailto:dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu">dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[To post messages to the list, send them to <a href="mailto:arabic-l@byu.edu">arabic-l@byu.edu</a>]</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:listserv@byu.edu">listserv@byu.edu</a> with first line reading:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> unsubscribe arabic-l ]</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-------------------------Directory------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1) Subject:Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac response</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2) Subject:Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac response</div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3) Subject:Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac response</div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">4) Subject:Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac response</div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">5) Subject:Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac response</div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 08 Apr 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:Michael Fishbein <<a href="mailto:fishbein@humnet.ucla.edu">fishbein@humnet.ucla.edu</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac response</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; ">Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac<br><br>Although Mellel handles Arabic and the vowels very well, and will even allow the text of a Word document generated on Windows and opened as blank squares on the Mac to be cut and pasted into Mellel, whereupon it miraculously turns into Arabic, Mellel does not know how to position shadda plus another vowel over a consonant; the two overprint each other, both on the screen and when the file is printed.<br><br>I have found a work-around. Unicode includes single glyphs for shadda plus each of the vowels, and some of the Mac Arabic fonts can access these glyphs. I suggest putting them into your list of favorites in Character Palate, so that they are readily accessible. Also, to facilitate matters, one can type the combinations normally and then do a global search and replace in Mellel. It works beautifully. Into the Find box, type shadda and the vowel; in the Replace box insert the compound glyph from your favorites. One can even turn the search into a macro. Unfortunately, you cannot use an OR search to include all the combinations of shadda and a vowel, because the replacement needs to vary on the basis of what is found.<br><br>Put the following compound glyphs into your favorites ). Look under Unicode Arabic, Arabic Presentation Forms-A, Arabic Presentation Forms-B), the first number (hex) after Unicode is what you are looking for:<br><br>ARABIC LIGATURE SHADDA WITH FATHA (Unicode FC60, UTF8 EF B1 A0)<br>ARABIC LIGATURE SHADDA WITH KASRA (Unicode FC62, UTF8 EF B1 A2)<br>ARABIC LIGATURE SHADDA WITH DAMMA (Unicode FC61, UTF8 EF B1 A1)<br>ARABIC LIGATURE SHADDA WITH KASRA (Unicode FC62, UTF8 EF B1 A2)<br>ARABIC LIGATURE SHADDA WITH DAMMATAN (Unicode FC5E, UTF8 EF B1 9E)<br>ARABIC LIGATURE SHADDA WITH KASRATAN (Unicode FC5F, UTF8 EF B1 9F)<br>ARABIC LETTER SUPERSCRIPT ALIF (Unicode 0670, UTF8 D9 B0)<br>ARABIC LETTER ALIF WASLA (Unicode 0671, UTF8 D9 B1<br>ARABIC LIGATURE ALLAH ISOLATED FORM (Unicode FDF2, UTF8 EF B7 B2)<br>ARABIC END OF AYAH (Unicode 06DD, UTF8 D8 9D)<br>ARABIC LIGATURE SALLALLAHOU ALAYHE... (Unicode FDFA, UTF8 EF B7 BA)<br><br>Not all the Arabic fonts have all these glyphs. Bayan seems to have most of them, except for Alif Wasla, which will come out in a different font (and smaller). I have not located shadda with fathatan.<br><br><br>Michael Fishbein, Lecturer in Arabic<br>Dept. of Near Eastern Languages & Cultures<br>366 Humanities Building, UCLA<br>Los Angeles, CA 90095-1511<br>tel. 310 206-2229<br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 08 Apr 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:Connie Bobroff" <<a href="mailto:connieb@gmail.com">connieb@gmail.com</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac response</div><div><br></div><div>This series of Perso-Arabic fonts which can be used on both PC and Mac can<br>properly display short vowels and diacritics.<br><a href="http://wiki.irmug.org/index.php/X_Series_2">http://wiki.irmug.org/index.php/X_Series_2</a><br>I'm sorry I deleted the orignal post(s) on this subject but these fonts work<br>perfectly in Mellel and<br>all Mac applications.<br><br>-Connie Bobroff<br>University of Texas at Austin<br></div><div><br></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 08 Apr 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:"Kevin Burnham" <<a href="mailto:kburnham@gmail.com">kburnham@gmail.com</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac response</div><div><br></div><div>Hi,<br>I use Mellel on a MAC with the Scheherazade font and have no trouble putting<br>fathas on top of shaddas. I believe it can be downloaded for free from<br><a href="http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=ArabicFonts">http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=ArabicFonts</a><br>.<br>Kevin Burnham</div><div><br></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">4)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 08 Apr 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039); "><b> </b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; ">"Waheed Samy" <<a href="mailto:wasamy@umich.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">wasamy@umich.edu</a>></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac response</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Have you tried different fonts? Under MS-Word the same effect -dot and<br>diacritic overlap-occurs with certain fonts, such as Arial. However, if you<br>select all the text displaying this symptom then change the font to<br>Simplified Arabic, the display is fine. <br><br>Waheed<br></div><div><br></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">5)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 08 Apr 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:"Knut S. Vikør" <<a href="mailto:knut.vikor@ahkr.uib.no">knut.vikor@ahkr.uib.no</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Vowel markings with Mellel on Mac response</div><div><br></div><div>In a separate message today, I mentioned a bit about Arabic font types, and this is related. It is also relevant for complex Latin diacritics, by the way.<br><br>Apple has created a basic, operating system level, way of handling typography, that is to my eyes very flexible. One element of it, is that diacritics in either Arabic or Latin are aware of each of other and can relate to each other: If you have a font that can show both "dot under" and then "line under", try to type both onto the same character, in e.g. TextEdit, which uses the system typography resource only. You will see that the second one you type moves down so that both are visible. Some Semiticits do use "d with line under and dot under" for whom this will be useful. Even better, "dot above" over a lower-case character is placed just above it; over an upper-case character the same dot moves higher up, and is placed correctly in relation to, and also centrally placed whether it is a wide W or a narrow I.<br><br>Fine. However, as mentioned in the other mail, this system did not handle Arabic ligatures in certain fonts (of the OpenType kind). So, some programs do not use this system-level function, but create their own. Mellel is one such. It does mean it can use a much greater variety of Arabic fonts. But it also means that it must forgo this dynamic placement of diacritics, or recreate the complex typography behind it by itself. InDesign is a beautiful program, and can do lots of fine typography, but is unfortunately terribly expensive. Mellel is affordable, but you get the trade-off.<br><br>What to do? Well, what happens is that without these system-based adjustments, the program uses just what the font itself provides. Fonts actually do differ on this shadda + vowel combination. Most fonts will in Mellel do as you say, superimpose them. But a few do not. Apple's al-Bayan seems actually to work well. So do the two very nice SIL fonts, Lateef and Scheherazade, and a couple of WinSoft newest fonts (WinSoft Pro). But these are about it. The very nice set of Persian fonts available on Mellel's website (the X series), unfortunately do not [but I believe the producer is actively working on a new set of more sophisticated fonts which may work better].<br><br>Perhaps this will become more automatic in new OS, but since these finer things are ultimately about development time and costs, there may always be trade-offs.<br><br>(The program Dil does not mention, but which I prefer for Arabic text, is NisusWriter Pro. Its typography is Apple based, so it has all these niceties, but it is also as powerful as Mellel or more in terms of word processing, in my experience.)<br><br>Knut<br><<a href="http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv">http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv</a>><br>- There is somewhere there a comment about the particular issue of shadda + kasra, which is an issue apart -<br></div><div><br></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">End of Arabic-L: 08 Apr 2008</div></div></div></div></body></html>