<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Arabic-L: Tue 14 Oct 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <<a href="mailto:dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu">dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[To post messages to the list, send them to <a href="mailto:arabic-l@byu.edu">arabic-l@byu.edu</a>]</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:listserv@byu.edu">listserv@byu.edu</a> with first line reading:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> unsubscribe arabic-l ]</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-------------------------Directory------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1) Subject:Abuu, abaa, abii response</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2) Subject:Abuu, abaa, abii response</div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3) Subject:Abuu, abaa, abii response</div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">4) Subject:Abuu, abaa, abii response</div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">5) Subject:Abuu, abaa, abii response</div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 14 Oct 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:Ernest McCarus <<a href="mailto:enm@umich.edu">enm@umich.edu</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Abuu, abaa, abii response</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; ">Dear Mike,<br><br>Why Abizeid rather that Abuuzayd or Abaazayd?<br><br>The general's name is in a colloquial dialect rather than MSA. The<br>three-case system of Standard Arabic is reduced to a single-case system in<br>the dialects, the most frequently-used vowel replacing the others. Thus<br>you hear names like Abi-Abdalla, priests addressed as 'abiinaa rather than<br>'abaanaa, masculine sound plurals in -iin for all syntactic functions, etc.<br><br>As for the Sibawayhi story, I only hope it is not true.<br><br>Best,<br>Ernest<br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 14 Oct 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:Tressy Arts <<a href="mailto:tressy.arts@gmail.com">tressy.arts@gmail.com</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Abuu, abaa, abii response</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On a related note, I have long wondered why the Islamic primary school in Nijmegen was called Abi Bakr. I thought it may have been short for madrasat Abi Bakr, but that would not apply to the general. <br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 14 Oct 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:rizwanur rahman <<a href="mailto:rahman_r@yahoo.com">rahman_r@yahoo.com</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Abuu, abaa, abii response</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Dear Schub<br>Such words really has not valid grammatical ground but such names are there among Mulsims. Zisha'n is a very common name of Muslims at various places. Gen. John Abizaid (born to Labanese father) is a retired general of US army and perhaps his name has infleunec of some Labanese dilect. Egyptians also do the same when saying 20, 30, 40 ................... ('aishreen, thalaatheen, arna'aeen in place of 'aishroon, thalaathoon, arba'oon...... in nominative case).<br><br>Rizwanur Rahman, Ph.D.<br>Centre of Arabic and African Studies,<br>Jawaharlal Nehru University,<br>New Delhi - 110067 INDIA<br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">4)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 14 Oct 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:sattar izwaini <<a href="mailto:sattarumist@yahoo.co.uk">sattarumist@yahoo.co.uk</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Abuu, abaa, abii response</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div>Dear All,</div><div> </div><div>Abizeid is a family name from Lebanon that goes back to many, many generations. It is already established beyond grammatical correctness. It seems that the spoken variety freezed it in this version.</div><div> </div><div>Regards</div><div>Sattar Izwaini</div><div><br></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">5)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: 14 Oct 2008</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From:David Wilmsen <<a href="mailto:david.wilmsen@gmail.com">david.wilmsen@gmail.com</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject:Abuu, abaa, abii response</div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr">I would not expect to find abaa in names (or at least not very often), it being the vocative form: viz. yaa abaa l-qaasim.<br><br>On the other hand Abou in nominative and Abi in genitive could both work; think of Ali bin Abi Talib. That it might appear in surnames such as Abizaid must have its origins in truncations of names of the form "ibn abi fulaan".<br><br>The modern survival of the genitive Abi in surnames seems to be a Lebanese phenomenon. Or at least I am much more aware of it in Lebanon than I was while I was in Egypt. <br><br>So...<br><br>A search of the names of students, faculty, and staff at AUB reveals that names with Abou (or Abu) are much more common (n= 289) than those with Abi (n= 98 including 4 Abiad, which might be Abi Aad, of which there are 2, or Abyad).<br><br>A similar search of the website at AUC can only be made of faculty members and staff, but not students. <br><br>Comparing faculty and staff members at AUC and AUB with names beginning with Abou or Abu and Abi, then, we find <br><br>At AUC<br>faculty and staff members with surnames beginning <br>with Abi = 0<br>with Abou = 24<br>with Abu = 5<br>with Aba = 1 (Abadir, which may be a false hit even though it is spelled ابادير which could mean something like "of the monestary" - it is a Christian name)<br><br>At AUB<br>faculty and staff members with surnames beginning<br>with Abi = 30<br>with Abou = 58<br>with Abu = 45<br>with Aba = 0<br><br>The reason why the numbers are smaller at AUC might be explained for a variety of reasons, which we do not need to go into here. Incidentally, names with Bou seem to be more common here than in Egypt too (I have seen for example Abou Jaudeh, Abi Jaudeh, and Bou Jaudeh, with various spellings).<br><br>This may not mean that surnames with Abi do not exist in Egypt and elsewhere. With all of the moving around that has occurred in the Arab world since, say, AD 711, people with Abi in their names might be expected to be found in many places throughout the Arab Middle East (and beyond). But it does seem that they are much more common in Lebanon.<br><br>I would not expect that General Abizaid would necessarily know why his name is Abi Zaid and not Abou Zaid, or even be aware that they are effectively the same name.<br><br>I do believe, however, that he is of Lebanese descent. <br><br>-- <br>David Wilmsen, PhD, Arabic language and linguistics<br>Visiting Associate Professor of Arabic<br>Department of Arabic and Near Eastern Languages<br>American University of Beirut<br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">End of Arabic-L: 14 Oct 2008</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>