<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Arabic-L: Mon 18 April 2011<br>Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <<a href="mailto:dil@byu.edu">dil@byu.edu</a>><br>[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l@byu.edu]<br>[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to<br><a href="mailto:listserv@byu.edu">listserv@byu.edu</a> with first line reading:<br> unsubscribe arabic-l ]<br><br>-------------------------Directory------------------------------------<br><br>1) Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response<br>2) Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response<br>3) Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response<br>4) Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response<br><div>5) Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response<br></div><div><br></div><div>-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------<br>1)<br>Date: 18 April 2011<br>From: Becky Molloy <<a href="mailto:becky@molloys.net">becky@molloys.net</a>><br>Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response<br><br></div><div>Hi,<div>Yes, both are considered "صفة" clauses, the nouns they describe are an اسم موصوف or simply موصوف . Hope that helps. Best, <br><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Dr. Rebecca B. Molloy<br>Arabic Linguistics, Mideast Affairs<br>& Counter Terrorism Research<br><br></div><div>2 Faraway Rd<br>Armonk, NY 10504<br><a href="mailto:rebecca@molloys.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(34, 62, 110); ">rebecca@molloys.net</a></div><div><br></div></div></span></span></div></div>--------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>2)<br>Date: 18 April 2011<br>From: Ebtesam Mohammadi <<a href="mailto:ebtesam@aucegypt.edu">ebtesam@aucegypt.edu</a>><br>Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response<br><br></div><div>if you go by Arabic linguists, it is the same:<br>algumal wa Ashbaah algumal ba3d elma3aarif aHwaal wa ba3d alnajiraat sifaat: Sentences and prepositional phrases are considered adverbs after definite nouns and adjectives after indefinite nouns.<br>it is also clear that min asHaab assultaan is describing the man.<br>I hope this helps<br>Best,<br>Ebtissam<br></div><div><br></div>--------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>3)<br>Date: 18 April 2011<br>From: <<a href="mailto:hwa2@georgetown.edu">hwa2@georgetown.edu</a>><br>Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response<div><br><div>Dear Zainab<br>Each sentences you wrote has a clause functioning as an adjective modifying the indefinite noun preceding it. following the rule: " الجمل بعد النكرات صفات "<br>Huda Al Mufti<br></div><div><br></div><div>--------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>4)<br>Date: 18 April 2011<br>From: <<a href="mailto:rns747@aol.com">rns747@aol.com</a>><br>Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response</div><div><br></div><div><div>Dear Zainab,</div><div>I wouldn't consider a prepositional phrase as a clause. The concept of "clause" used in linguistics is compatible with "jumla" or sentence in Arabic grammar. In Arabic a sentence and hence a clause is either a verbal sentence or a nominal sentence (with a subject and predicate).A prepositional phrase, even though it may function as a noun modifier, is not considered a sentence/ clause. So your example has a PP that has a similar function to a relative or adjectival clause but we can not call it so.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope this helps.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Reem Faraj</div></div><div><br></div><div><div>--------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>4)<br>Date: 18 April 2011<br>From: <<a href="mailto:mcredi@cloud9.net">mcredi@cloud9.net</a>><br>Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response</div></div><div><br></div><div>[moderator's note: unfortunately, the Arabic of Mr. Credi's message did not come through. sorry about that. dil]</div><div><br></div><div>Nowhere in the Arab grammarians study of Arabic grammar is there a <br>recognition of the relative clause. The notion of relative clause as <br>it is understood in other languages is unknown to the Arab <br>grammarians. The technical term itself of "relative clause" does not <br>exist in Arabic. The way the Arab grammarians explain this phenomenon <br>is as follows: ????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? ?????. This means <br>that a relative clause whose antecedent is indefinite and consequently <br>does not have a relative pronoun is considered a ??? and the <br>grammarians call it ???? ?????; a relative clause whose antecedent is <br>definite and consequently has a relative pronoun is ??? and the <br>grammarians call it ??? ???????.<br><br>Medhat Credi<br></div><div><br></div><div>--------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>End of Arabic-L: 18 April 2011</div></div></body></html>