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Arabic-L: Sat 01 Oct 2011
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <<a href="mailto:dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu">dilworth_parkinson@byu.edu</a>>
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1) Subject:Verbs with preps response
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1)
Date: </span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica; ">01 Oct 2011</span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">
From:</span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">sattar izwaini <</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><a href="mailto:sattarumist@yahoo.co.uk">sattarumist@yahoo.co.uk</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">
Subject:Verbs with preps response
</span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">Hello</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">Some verbs in Arabic need a preposition to have an 'object'. Without the preposition the structure would not be right and may give a different meaning, e.g.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">جاءنا خبر (jaa'naa khabar)</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">this is an intransitive verb and the word خبر is the subject, whereas in</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">جاءنا بخبر (jaa'naa bi-khabar)</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">the verb is transitive with 'unmentioned' subject that is implied and should be known form the context and cotext. The word خبر is the 'patient' or the 'object' if you wish. However, according to Arabic grammar it is the object of the preposition not the verb. The preposition and the verb constitute a prepositional phrase. the same analysis can be applied on other verbs with preposition where the structure and semantics require the preposition.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">
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</span></font><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">2)
Date: </span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica; ">01 Oct 2011</span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">
From:</span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">Ahmed Hassan Khorshid <</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><a href="mailto:khorshid@aucegypt.edu">khorshid@aucegypt.edu</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">
Subject:Verbs with preps response
</span></font></p><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">*Hello,*</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">*I'd like to answer your query to Arabic-L, but I'm not sure I understand it</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">well.*</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">*To start with, jaa'a is both transitive and intransitive (**jaa'ahu/</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">jaa'aha, **jaa'a ila). jaa'a bi is only intransitive (any verb followed by a</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">preposition is intransitive). You may argue that jaa'a bi has a transitive</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">equivalent meaning, like aHDara.*</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">*The transitive/ intransitive dichotomy has a relevance to case and case</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">endings (i'raab). When it comes to meaning, why don't we think in Arabic</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">instead of English? I think that the causative/ reflexive dichotomy is more</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">important because it has relevance to meaning.*</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">*For example, if form I is intr., form II, IV is tr. If form I is tr., form</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">II, IV is di/ double transitive.*</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">*I could rephrase the preceding line by saying that form II, IV is</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">causative.*</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">*A common mistake is to say that form VI is only intr. It could be tr. if</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">form III is di/ double transitive. The correct description of it is that it</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">is reflexive of III. If you want to discuss it further, please let me know.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">salaam.*</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">--</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">Ahmad Khorshid</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; ">Arabic Language Instructor</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; "><br></span></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica; ">-------------------------------------------------------------------------
</span><p align=""><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">End of Arabic-L: </span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica; ">01 Oct 2011</span></p><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica; "><br></span></div></pre></body></html>