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<div style="">I guess I should add sth. regarding Western Apache. WA has a fortitioned (prenasalized) [nd] from PA *n. In some dialects, that stays the prenasalized [nd], in others it becomes a plain [n] (yes, there's evidence that PA *n > PSA (Proto Southern
Athabascan) *nd > n), in others, it becomes a voiced [d], phonemically different from the <d> [t]. Now, for some younger speakers, this [d] merges with the <d> [t], both being pronounced voiceless. I have always wondered whether that was an influence from
the spelling, since in the dialects that have [d] and [t] as different phonemes, both are spelled <d>. You are supposed to spell the <d> that comes from PA *n as underlined <d>, but in practice no one does this.<br>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma;">Best wishes,<br>
<span style="font-family: Tahoma;"><br>
<span style="font-family: Tahoma;">Willem de Reuse</span><br>
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<font color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> ATHAPBASCKAN-L [ATHAPBASCKAN-L@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] on behalf of Andrea L. Berez [andrea.berez@GMAIL.COM]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ATHAPBASCKAN-L@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: "Voiced obstruent" mistakes<br>
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<div>Hi,<br>
<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
That's a good point. It's misleading to assume that e.g. <j> really<br>
represents the same sound in both Tlingit and English. Unfortunately<br>
most teachers aren't linguists and thus don't try very hard to be<br>
precise about these things.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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During this trip I've been spending a some time in adult Ahtna language classes, and I've noticed that elder speaker-teachers seems to be far more distressed by students' lack of attention to manner distinctions than to voicing distinctions (including my own).
Missing an affricate or, more commonly, an ejective is far more likely to be corrected by an elder than making a voicing error, especially word-medially.
<br>
<br>
Andrea<br>
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