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    Dear Guillaume,<br>
    <br>
    I have one question and one comment. <br>
    <br>
    I would be interested to know why exactly you believe that the
    prefixing character or Athabaskan is counter to expectations, given
    the V-final word order. I have some guesses why you say that, but
    please clarify. For example, Indo-Europeanists apply special efforts
    to explain why IE has suffixal personal inflection, going back to
    subject pronouns, in spite of the SV order in the known IE
    languages.<br>
    <br>
    Also, modern Athabaskan have variable verb stem finals that is
    mostly reconstructed as going back to suffixes and, actually, series
    of suffixes. Most of the Athabaskan prefixes are relatively recent,
    and there is a reconstructable stage at which prefixes (conjunct)
    were combined with a number of suffixes. <br>
    <br>
    Best --<br>
    <br>
    Andrej Kibrik<br>
    <br>
     <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">15.09.2013 23:49, Guillaume Jacques
      пишет:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAAzt3zYYF0=gLKzDVvdGH1R5O=UvU4eKtogq261Lam3Qnfw6Dg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Beste Willem,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thank you for your message!</div>
        <div>Siouan languages are indeed verb final and have verb
          template that allow several prefixal slots. However, my
          statement was not specific enough, and did not clearly convey
          my meaning. In terms of the proportion of prefixes vs.
          suffixes, Siouan languages differ from Athabaskan and
          Rgyalrong, as they also have many suffixal slots; for instance
          the negation -<i>šni</i>, the irrealis -<i>kte </i>etc, and
          Rood and Taylor in their sketch of Lakhota list more than ten
          suffixal slots.</div>
        <div>Of course, there are "sentence final particles" in
          Athabascan and Rgyalrong too (for instance the negation  <i>da
          </i>in Navajo). However, in Siouan, there are morphological
          reasons to argue that the suffixal elements are indeed
          suffixes (the -a / -e / -ĩ vowel alternation for instance),
          whereas I am not sure whether the same could be argued of the
          sentence final particles in Athabaskan (feedback from
          specialists would be welcome).</div>
        <div>In any case, in any typological survey of OV+prefixing
          languages, I fully agree with you that Siouan languages have
          to be included.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Guillaume</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">2013/9/15 De Reuse, Willem <span
            dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:WillemDeReuse@my.unt.edu" target="_blank">WillemDeReuse@my.unt.edu</a>></span><br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div>
              <div
                style="direction:ltr;font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma">Dear
                Guillaume, bonjour!<br>
                <br>
                Thank you for sharing this.  I will definitely send you
                comments.  One comment on your statement that "there are
                very few strict OV languages with mainly prefixing
                verbal templates (as far as I know only Na-Dene,
                Ienissean and Rgyalrong)".  I can think of one other
                language family, Siouan, which would also conform to
                this description.   So you might want to write to the
                Siouanist language discussion group as well. They are a
                pretty lively bunch.<br>
                <br>
                Best,<br>
                <br>
                Willem de Reuse<br>
                <div style="font-size:16px;font-family:Times New Roman">
                  <hr>
                  <div style="direction:ltr"><font face="Tahoma"
                      color="#000000"><b>From:</b> ATHAPBASCKAN-L [<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:ATHAPBASCKAN-L@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG"
                        target="_blank">ATHAPBASCKAN-L@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>]
                      on behalf of Guillaume Jacques [<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:rgyalrongskad@GMAIL.COM"
                        target="_blank">rgyalrongskad@GMAIL.COM</a>]<br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 15, 2013 6:28 AM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:ATHAPBASCKAN-L@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG"
                        target="_blank">ATHAPBASCKAN-L@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> prefixing verbal template and OV<br>
                    </font><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr">Dear Athabaskanists, yaě'aět'eěeěh !
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <div class="im">I have just published an article
                          (in Linguistic Typology) on the issue of
                          disharmony between affix ordering and basic
                          word order. Here is an offprint:<br
                            clear="all">
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.academia.edu/2008163/Harmonization_and_disharmonization_of_affix_ordering_and_basic_word_order"
                              target="_blank">http://www.academia.edu/2008163/Harmonization_and_disharmonization_of_affix_ordering_and_basic_word_order</a><br>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>The article mainly discusses the verbal
                            template of Japhug Rgyalrong, a
                            polysynthetic Sino-Tibetan language spoken
                            in Eastern Tibet  (which, like Athabaskan
                            languages, has strict verb final order with
                            overwhelmingly prefixing verbal morphology)
                            in a historical perspective (how particular
                            morphemes were grammaticalized as prefixes
                            rather than suffixes, despites the fact that
                            the basic corresponding construction should
                            have led to the grammaticalization as
                            suffixes).</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>I did not really discuss Athabaskan in
                            detail due to my insufficient knowledge of
                            this field. However, I think that
                            typologically similar phenomena are probably
                            attested in Athabaskan.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <div>I would be much interested to have feedback
                          from Athabaskanists on this particular topic
                          (in particular, concerning the idea proposed
                          by Givoěn 2000 on the origin of some prefixes
                          in Tolowa); there are very few strict OV
                          languages with mainly prefixing verbal
                          templates (as far as I know only Na-Dene,
                          Ienissean and Rgyalrong), and typological
                          comparison of the morphosyntax of these
                          languages could be interesting, but it is not
                          a one-man project.</div>
                        <div class="im">
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Best wishes to all of you,</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Guillaume Jacques <br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          <div> </div>
                          -- <br>
                          Guillaume Jacques<br>
                          CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO<br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques"
                            target="_blank">http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques</a><br>
                          <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="http://himalco.hypotheses.org/"
                              target="_blank">http://himalco.hypotheses.org/</a></div>
                          <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="http://panchr.hypotheses.org/"
                              target="_blank">http://panchr.hypotheses.org/</a></div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
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            </div>
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        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        Guillaume Jacques<br>
        CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO<br>
        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques"
          target="_blank">http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques</a><br>
        <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://himalco.hypotheses.org/" target="_blank">http://himalco.hypotheses.org/</a></div>
        <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://panchr.hypotheses.org/" target="_blank">http://panchr.hypotheses.org/</a></div>
      </div>
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