<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class="">Dear Ying Lu,<div class=""> About 10 months ago, we eliminated the use of the <quiet> ["] form in CHAT. It appears that Leonid needs to revise SALTIN to match the new format. The new format, described in section 7.9 of the manual, uses special Unicode marks for begin quote and end quote. Hopefully, Leonid can revise this part of SALTIN to correspond to the new format.</div><div class=""> Regarding utterance exclusion on the basis of the > and the ^ mark, I don't think that Brown (1973) specifies clearly that these should be excluded. The final > mark should be converted to +... Is that happening correctly? If not we can fix that. You don't provide any examples of the use of the ^ mark. I don't imagine anyone would really want to exclude all interrupted utterances, including those with just overlap. So, this would have to be defined more closely.</div><div class=""> If you want to fine-tune all of this, you can create postcodes for these various types and use those postcodes as the basis for exclusion. The problem here is that different people have different ideas about which utterances should or should not be included. </div><div class=""><br></div><div class="">-- Brian MacWhinney</div><div class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class=""><br class=""></font><!--EndFragment--><div><div class="">On Nov 9, 2012, at 7:03 PM, Ying Lu <<a href="mailto:yl5834@gmail.com">yl5834@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">Dear Leonid,<br class=""><br class="">Thank you very much for your help! I am now able to convert files created in the newest version SALT to CHAT format!<br class=""><br class="">I have two more questions. <br class=""><br class="">One is about converting the words in quotation marks from SALT to CHAT format. It seems that CLAN will not count the words in quotations marks when running MOR. E.g.,<br class=""><br class="">In SALT:<br class="">C the little boy said[mv][IP] "quiet" [G].<br class="">In CLAN:<br class="">*CHI: the little boy said [% mv] [% ip] <quiet> ["] [% g] .<br class="">%mor: det|the adj|little n|boy v|say&PAST n|quote . <br class=""><br class="">The other is about how to exclude the abandoned utterances (marked by > in SALT) in CLAN. E.g.,<br class="">In SALT:<br class="">C (And they and they) ((and then)) they could/n't[IP]><br class="">C ((And then)) the boy look/ed[mv] into the hole [G].<br class="">In SALT, the abandoned utterances will be excluded from the analysis set. But CLAN keeps them in the MLU calculation. The same happened to the interrupted utterances (marked by ^ in SALT). <br class=""><br class="">Thank you very much again!<br class="">Sincerely,<br class="">Ying<br class=""><br class=""> <br class=""><br class="">On Monday, November 5, 2012 11:46:57 AM UTC-6, Spektor, Leonid: CMU wrote:<blockquote style="margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><span style="white-space:pre" class=""> </span>SALT started adding Unicode identification characters at the beginning of transcript. I have changed CLAN in general and SALTIN in particular to recognize those characters. I will update CLAN by the end of today.<br class=""><div class="">
<span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium; " class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium; " class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word;-webkit-line-break:after-white-space" class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><br class="">Leonid.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></span></span></span></div></span></div></span></span><br class="">
</div>
<br class=""><div class=""><div class="">On Nov 5, 2012, at 11:51, Sophie Ambrose wrote:</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite">I've recently begun running into this problem too and wasn't sure why the issue arose suddenly. The transcribing is being done in SALT elsewhere, so it's certainly possible the lab changed to the 2012 version recently too. I'm glad Leonid will be taking a look at this issue.<br class="">Sophie<br class=""><br class="">On Monday, November 5, 2012 9:47:59 AM UTC-6, Spektor, Leonid: CMU wrote:<blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">Ying Lu,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre" class=""> </span>If the latest version of SALT does output some special characters, then it would be best for us to change SALTIN to recognize them. For that I need a copy of your "Tran1.slt" file. Please email it to me if you can.<br class=""><div class="">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium; " class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; " class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; " class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; " class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><br class="">Leonid.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></span></div></span></span></div></span></div><br class="">
</div>
<br class=""><div class=""><div class="">On Nov 5, 2012, at 09:48, Ying Lu wrote:</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite"><div class=""><font color="#333399" class="">Dear Leonid,</font></div><div class=""><font color="#333399" class=""><font size="+0" class=""></font></font> <br class=""></div>
<div class=""><font color="#333399" class="">Thank you very much for your reply! </font></div>
<div class=""><font color="#333399" class=""><font size="+0" class=""></font></font> </div>
<div class=""><font color="#333399" class="">For problem (a), I understand the errors are due to the unrecognized initial characters of the tiers (e.g., $, C). But I don't know why that happened. I suspect there is a compatibility issue here, i.e., SALTIN can't recognize some symbols generated by the SALT 2012 student version. I will try other SALT versions later and see if that works.</font></div>
<div class=""><font color="#333399" class=""><font size="+0" class=""></font></font> </div>
<div class=""><font color="#333399" class="">As for problem (b), I got a reply from Dr. MacWhinney last night and was able to get the comparable MLU. Thanks a lot again for directing me to use POST!!!</font></div>
<div class=""><font color="#333399" class=""><font size="+0" class=""></font></font> </div>
<div class=""><font color="#333399" class="">Sincerely,</font></div>
<div class=""><font color="#333399" class="">Ying Lu </font></div>
<div class=""><br class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Leonid Spektor <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a class="">spe...@andrew.cmu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote style="border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" class="">Ying Lu,
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">(a)</div>
<div class=""><span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""></span>The first error "** ERROR: unknown symbol <> found on 1 line." is probably because the first character on the line 1 is not '$' character. It might be some special control character that SALT or your text editor has inserted and CLAN doesn't recognize. The rest of the errors are due to first line not being recognized by SALTIN and as a result SALTIN can't identify speaker name code.</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">I have created a test file from your example below and here is the result from SALTIN that I get:</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">@Begin<br class="">@Languages:<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>eng<br class="">@Participants:<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>CHI Target_Child, INV Investigator<br class="">@ID:<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>eng|change_me_later|CHI|||||<wbr class="">Target_Child|||<br class="">
@ID:<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>eng|change_me_later|INV|||||<wbr class="">Investigator|||<br class="">@Time Start:<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>00:00<br class="">@Comment:<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>Language: English<br class="">
*CHI:<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>there is a boy whose name is tom .<br class="">*CHI:<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>he likes swimming .<br class="">%tim:<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>00:05<br class="">@End</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">It would be very helpful if you would send to me directly the "Tran1.slt" file that you used.</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">(b)</div>
<div class=""><span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""></span>The difference in MLU results is due to %mor tier not being disambiguated by POST command. If you run POST command, then you will get this CHAT file:</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">*CHI: the dog was [% ip] looking [% mv] in the beehive and 0at [% po] the mole [% u] .<br class="">%mor:<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>det|the n|dog aux|be&PAST&13S part|look-PROG prep|in det|the n|beehive coord|and 0prep|at det|the n|mole .</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">and this MLU result:</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">MLU for Speaker: *CHI:<br class=""> MLU (xxx, yyy and www are EXCLUDED from the utterance and morpheme counts):<br class=""><span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""></span>Number of: utterances = 1, morphemes = 11<br class=""><span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""></span>Ratio of morphemes over utterances = 11.000<br class="">
<span style="WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap" class=""></span>Standard deviation = 0.000<span class=""><font color="#888888" class=""><br class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" class="">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" class="">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" class="">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">Leonid.</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:Helvetica" class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div></font></span>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">On Nov 4, 2012, at 20:33 , Ying Lu wrote:</div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"><b class="">Dear Chibolts group,<br class=""><br class="">I am trying to convert some SALT files and compare the MLU calculated by SALT with that by CLAN. I encounter some problems:<br class=""><br class="">(a) I am using SALT 2012 Student Version. </b><br class="">
<br class=""><b class="">The original SALT file is (I am using a short version sample here):</b><br class=""><br class="">$ Child, Examiner<br class="">+ Language: English<br class="">- 0:00<br class=""><br class="">C There is a boy whose name is Tom.<br class="">C He likes swimming.<br class=""><br class="">- 0:05<br class="">
<br class=""><b class="">But I got the following message when converting a SALT file into CHAT format using the command line "SALTIN Tran1.slt": </b><br class="">> SALTIN Tran1.slt<br class="">saltin Tran1.slt<br class="">Sun Nov 04 18:39:34 2012<br class="">saltin (07-Sep-2012)<br class="">
******************************<wbr class="">**********<br class="">From file <Tran1.slt><br class="">** ERROR: unknown symbol <> found on 1 line.<br class="">** ERROR: unknown symbol <c> found on 5 line.<br class="">** ERROR: unknown symbol <c> found on 7 line.<br class="">
Output file <Tran1.sltin.cha><br class=""><br class=""><b class="">The output file looks like this:</b><br class=""><br class="">@Begin<br class="">@Languages: eng<br class="">@Time Start: 00:00<br class="">@Time Start: there is a boy whose name is tom .he likes swimming .00:05<br class="">
@End<br class=""><br class=""><b class="">I don't understand why the errors would occur.</b><br class=""><br class=""><b class="">(b) Also, the MLU calculated by SALT is often different from that calculated by CLAN. For example,</b><br class="">C The dog was look/ing in the beehive and *at the mole. <b class="">(in SALT)</b><br class="">
<br class=""><b class="">When I convert this to CHAT format, and use the MOR and MLU commands, it showed: </b><br class="">*CHI: The dog was [% ip] looking [% mv]<br class=""> in the beehive and 0at [% po] the mole [% u] .<br class="">%mor: det|the v|dog^n|dog v:cop|be&PAST&13S^aux|be&PAST&<wbr class="">13S<br class="">
adj:part|look-PROG^n:gerund|<wbr class="">look-PROG^part|look-PROG<br class=""> prep|in^adv:loc|in^pfx|in det|the n|beehive coord|and 0prep|at<br class=""> det|the n|mole .<br class=""><br class=""><b class="">The MLU by SALT is 11, but the Ratio of morphemes over utterances = 13 (Number of: utterances = 1, morphemes = 13) by CLAN.</b><br class="">
<br class="">Apparently, the MLU result by SALT is what I want. But how could I get the same result in CLAN?<br class=""><br class="">Thank you very much for your attention! Look forward to your help!<br class="">Sincerely,<br class="">Ying Lu<br class="">
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