<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>
<div>
<div>Nick,</div>
<div> Yes, the norms Nan extracted for that article are going to be the gold standard of the future. The plan is to incorporate these norms directly into the KIDEVAL program. Soon ….</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>—Brian</div>
<div>
<div id="MAC_OUTLOOK_SIGNATURE"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:12pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>ChiBolts <<a href="mailto:chibolts@googlegroups.com">chibolts@googlegroups.com</a>> on behalf of Nick Riches <<a href="mailto:nick.riches@gmail.com">nick.riches@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>ChiBolts <<a href="mailto:chibolts@googlegroups.com">chibolts@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Friday, April 15, 2016 at 5:13 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>ChiBolts <<a href="mailto:chibolts@googlegroups.com">chibolts@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Nick Riches <<a href="mailto:nick.riches@newcastle.ac.uk">nick.riches@newcastle.ac.uk</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: VOCD is too high<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dear Brian<br>
<br>
Thanks for getting back so quickly. I've just checked, and KIDEVAL is consistent with VOCD. Apologies - the student reported a difference, and I should have triple-checked before posting.<br>
<br>
Regarding VOCD, I've been using the norms provided in Durán, P., Malvern, D., Richards, B., & Chipere, N. (2004). Developmental Trends in Lexical Diversity.
<i>Applied Linguistics</i>, <i>25</i>(2), 220–242. <a href="http://doi.org/10.1093/applin/25.2.220">
http://doi.org/10.1093/applin/25.2.220</a>. This seems to be the most recent published source of norms on D, but I may be wrong. According to these, a D score of 70 would put a child aged 6 years old in the 90th centile. However, according to the norms which
Nan sent through in the 2016 article "Your laptop to the rescue", a D score of 70 is about average for this age. I presume that these recent norms are more comprehensive. So the issue is not the accuracy of the software, but where to obtain a good set of norms
to interpret VOCD.<br>
<br>
It would be great if I could circulate this chapter to the students, but it may be subject to copyright. I could also develop my own norms, but my CLAN skills are not quite up to scratch (just yet!)<br>
<br>
Best wishes<br>
<br>
Nick Riches<br>
<br>
<span class="Z3988" title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1093%2Fapplin%2F25.2.220&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Developmental%20Trends%20in%20Lexical%20Diversity&rft.jtitle=Applied%20Linguistics&rft.stitle=Applied%20Linguistics&rft.volume=25&rft.issue=2&rft.aufirst=Pilar&rft.aulast=Dur%C3%A1n&rft.au=Pilar%20Dur%C3%A1n&rft.au=David%20Malvern&rft.au=Brian%20Richards&rft.au=Ngoni%20Chipere&rft.date=2004-06-01&rft.pages=220-242&rft.spage=220&rft.epage=242&rft.issn=0142-6001%2C%201477-450X&rft.language=en"></span><br>
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:58:44 PM UTC+1, Brian MacWhinney wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>
<div>Dear Nick,</div>
<div> Looking at the file you sent, the VOCD score seems about right, because this child was using a lot of different words. Just by way of comparison, I ran VOCD on the various files in the Brown/Eve file and Eve got higher and higher scores as Eve
got older. Everything seemed fine. Leonid checked on the issue you mention about KIDEVAL giving different values from a separate run of VOCD and he could not see problems there either. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>—Brian MacWhinney</div>
<div>
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>ChiBolts <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="HhQRUXxGLQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">chib...@googlegroups.com</a>>
on behalf of Nick Riches <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="HhQRUXxGLQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">nick....@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>ChiBolts <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="HhQRUXxGLQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">chib...@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 4:01 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>ChiBolts <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="HhQRUXxGLQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">chib...@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>VOCD is too high<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi<br>
<br>
I'm teaching CLAN to Speech and Language Therapy students. As an exercise they have to calculate VOCD<br>
<br>
One student is consistently getting VOCD scores much higher than 70 (for the VOCD program) and around 100 for KIDEVAL. This is a young child. I've had a brief look and can't see anything odd about the coding that would lead to these kind of results. I've attached
the CHAT script, and the MOR.PST.CEX scripts.<br>
<br>
Does anyone know why it's so high?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance.<br>
<br>
Nick<br>
</div>
<p></p>
-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "chibolts" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="HhQRUXxGLQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">
chibolts+u...@<wbr>googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="HhQRUXxGLQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">
chib...@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chibolts/de8b6285-bd47-4ae8-ae36-76e2608cb027%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chibolts/de8b6285-bd47-4ae8-ae36-76e2608cb027%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium\75email\46utm_source\75footer';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chibolts/de8b6285-bd47-4ae8-ae36-76e2608cb027%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium\75email\46utm_source\75footer';return true;">
https://groups.google.com/d/<wbr>msgid/chibolts/de8b6285-bd47-<wbr>4ae8-ae36-76e2608cb027%<wbr>40googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='https://groups.google.com/d/optout';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://groups.google.com/d/optout';return true;">
https://groups.google.com/d/<wbr>optout</a>.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p></p>
-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "chibolts" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
<a href="mailto:chibolts+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">chibolts+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href="mailto:chibolts@googlegroups.com">chibolts@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chibolts/5fa34d49-1032-4847-8d0e-d6d6bb8998eb%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer">
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chibolts/5fa34d49-1032-4847-8d0e-d6d6bb8998eb%40googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></span>
</body>
</html>
<p></p>
-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "chibolts" group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to <a href="mailto:chibolts+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">chibolts+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href="mailto:chibolts@googlegroups.com">chibolts@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chibolts/AFCE5099-D1DF-48EF-A6A0-44481934C1FE%40cmu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer">https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chibolts/AFCE5099-D1DF-48EF-A6A0-44481934C1FE%40cmu.edu</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />