<div dir="ltr">P.S. the Chapter is clearly copyrighted, so I'll order a copy of the book when it becomes available.<br><br>Nick<br><br>On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 10:18:27 AM UTC+1, Nick Riches wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Hi<br><br>Many thanks for the help. I've just replied to Brian (above). It appears that this is not a software issue, but one related to norms. The norms I circulate are those in   Durán, P., 
Malvern, D., Richards, B., & Chipere, N. (2004). Developmental 
Trends in Lexical Diversity. <i>Applied Linguistics</i>, <i>25</i>(2), 
220–242. <a href="http://doi.org/10.1093/applin/25.2.220" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1093%2Fapplin%2F25.2.220\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE0d--slog79laB2zqSdPjOGj8Cjg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1093%2Fapplin%2F25.2.220\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE0d--slog79laB2zqSdPjOGj8Cjg';return true;">http://doi.org/10.1093/applin/<wbr>25.2.220</a>. But these give a much lower average D per age-band than your more recent norms, which are obviously much more comprehensive.<br><br>Thanks for the Chapter. I was wondering whether I could distribute it to students, or whether it is subject to copyright?<br><br>That's a great tip about using the variability in D to investigate plagiarism. Sadly, I can't use it with our students as they collect their own data...<br><br>Best wishes<br><br>Nick<br><br>On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 2:24:11 AM UTC+1, Nan Ratner wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I didn't notice how old the child was, but I'd say Brian is right. In fact,</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">we just wrote an article together in which we took a look at language</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">sample analysis (LSA) metrics for a large number of kids in the Archive</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">talking with their mom or another adult (typical toy play scenarios) and we</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">definitely saw kids hit an "average" in that range between 4 and 6 years,</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">and the range definitely went that high well before that. As you know, the</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">problem with defining a real "norm" for VocD is its resampling algorithm</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">that won't give you exactly the same score twice, down to the decimal</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">point, but we are going to see if we can tackle this in the near future</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">statistically.</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I am attaching a pdf of the article if you'd like to see our results. BTW,</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I am glad to see someone using this kind of assignment. In case it helps</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">any other teachers out there, I kept the issue of VocD replicability to</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">myself until after the assignment was handed in, just to see if I could</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">spot people handing in one another's work, since for undergrads I gave them</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">a choice of only about a dozen taped interactions they could use to try</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">their hands at LSA. Over the years, I did catch just one pair of students.</span><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font:12.8px Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Nan</span></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Nick Riches <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow">nick....@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi<br><br>I'm teaching CLAN to Speech and Language Therapy students. As an exercise they have to calculate VOCD<br><br>One student is consistently getting VOCD scores much higher than 70 (for the VOCD program) and around 100 for KIDEVAL. This is a young child. I've had a brief look and can't see anything odd about the coding that would lead to these kind of results. I've attached the CHAT script, and the MOR.PST.CEX scripts.<br><br>Does anyone know why it's so high?<br><br>Thanks in advance.<span><font color="#888888"><br><br>Nick<br></font></span></div><span><font color="#888888">

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