CHINOOK Digest - 17 May 2005 to 18 May 2005 (#2005-65)

Fri May 20 01:06:55 UTC 2005

The hop harvest used to be really big. That area south
of Seattle, north of Tacoma, and going east to the
foothills of the Cascades used to be a big hop raising
area.

Also, as late as the 1920s it seems people came from
all over, and all races and ethnic groups, to cut hops
and do fruit in the Yakima Valley.

--- Automatic digest processor
<LISTSERV at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> wrote:

> There are 4 messages totalling 134 lines in this
> issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. Sept-Oct seasonal round & CJ
>   2. This newspaper isn't going to pay for itself!
>   3. Math from a Chinuk Wawa speaker
>   4. Chilcotins represented as talking CW-English
> mix in 1895
>
> To respond to the CHINOOK list, click 'REPLY ALL'.
> To respond privately to the sender of a message,
> click 'REPLY'.  Hayu masi!
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 May 2005 14:00:26 -0400
> From:    David Robertson <ddr11 at COLUMBIA.EDU>
> Subject: Sept-Oct seasonal round & CJ
>
> Hi,
>
> I've had an inquiry.  What sort of seasonal
> occupation(s) occurring in
> September and October might have been linked with
> use of Chinook Jargon?
>
> For example, maybe, some harvest (hops? haying?) or
> salmon cannery work?
>
> Thanks,
>
> ---Dave R
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 May 2005 16:32:29 -0400
> From:    David Robertson <ddr11 at COLUMBIA.EDU>
> Subject: This newspaper isn't going to pay for
> itself!
>
> --to paraphrase my dad, or Hank Hill of the TV
> show--
>
> Here's Father Le Jeune's version of it:
>
> "Kah msaika tomtom nsaika tlap chikmin pus mamuk
> ukuk pipa, ukuk chikmin
> wik kata pus iaka fol dawn kopa sahali ilihi kakwa
> sno"!
>
> "Where do you folks think we find the money to make
> this newspaper,
> there's no way the money is going to fall from
> Heaven like snow"...
>
> In Duane Pasco-style literal translation, here's how
> the Chinuk Wawa line
> works:  "Where y'all think we find money for make
> this newspaper, this
> money no how for it fall down from above land like
> snow".
>
> This is part of a long harangue Le Jeune wrote in
> Kamloops Wawa #128 (May
> 1895), pages 69-70, explaining to a complaining
> reader the mechanics &
> economics of publishing a handwritten newspaper for
> Indians versus a
> typeset one for white people.
>
> --Dave R
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 May 2005 17:40:32 -0400
> From:    David Robertson <ddr11 at COLUMBIA.EDU>
> Subject: Math from a Chinuk Wawa speaker
>
> "Kopa Kolwatir, Mois Tlakamnaskat iaka kolan kanawi
> katolik liplit klaska
> 500,000 kanawi kanamokst, pi iaka wawa:  Klunas
> kansih lili iht man iskom
> klaska lima "shikhanc" kanawi pi iaka kopit.  Pus
> iaka aiak, pi iaka
> shikhanc 20 kopa iht minit, 1200 kopa iht awr, 12000
> iht son, klunas wik
> saia iht mun pi sitkom, pi iaka kopit shikhanc
> kanawi."
>
> I won't give a word-by-word breakdown, but here's my
> translation of this
> excellent math problem:
>
> "At Coldwater, BC, Moise Tlakamnaskat heard that all
> the Catholic priests
> number 500,000 in total, and he said, 'Who knows how
> long it'd take a man
> to finish shaking hands with all of them.  If he
> hurried, and shook hands
> with 20 in a minute, 1200 in an hour, 12000 a day,
> it might be almost a
> month and a half before he finished shaking hands
> with all of them."
>
> (Note, there's lots of mention in Kamloops Wawa of
> the custom of shaking
> hands with priests & others.  This bit came from
> issue #129 [June 1895],
> page 87.)
>
> --Dave R
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 May 2005 19:09:25 -0400
> From:    David Robertson <ddr11 at COLUMBIA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Chilcotins represented as talking
> CW-English mix in 1895
>
> There is a comparable mix of Chinuk Wawa with
> English, in Kamloops Wawa
> #130 (July 1895), on page 100:
>
> [Ignace Dick of Lillooet Meadows, BC {mentioned in a
> preceding English-
> language section} was at High Bar showing off how he
> could read any
> language in shorthand; Le Jeune specifies here that
> he read French,
> English, St=F3:l=F4 & ?Thompson.  When he went back
> to where he was working,=
>
> Ignace sent a letter to High Bar, quoted here as
> being in an English-CW
> mix:
>
> =93Yu want tu bit mi, pi yu kant bit mi.  Ai no ol
> Chinuk pipa.=94
>
> {=93You want to beat me, but you can=92t beat me.  I
> know all of the
> shorthand.=94  CSH translation is given for
> readers=92 benefit.}  --Le Jeune=
>
> says the High Bar people were very amused by this,
> and compliments him
> using a similar English-CW mix:
>
> =93Skukum wawa, Inas Dik, skukum wawa mai boi.=94
>
> {=93Great words, Ignace Dick, great words my
> boy.=94}]
>
> --Dave R.
>
>
> On Tue, 17 May 2005 18:09:55 -0400, David Robertson
> <ddr11 at COLUMBIA.EDU>
> wrote:
>
> >So why are Chilcotin Indians represented as
> speaking a mix of Chinuk Wawa
> >and English in an 1895 issue of Kamloops Wawa?  (To
> be exact, in the
> >Sugarcane Tintin, a newspaper within Kamloops
> Wawa's issue #126 of March
> >1895.)
> >
> >They say: "Halo, tanas man, wat is d matir?"
> (Hello, young man, what is
> >the matter?")
> >
> >And: "Ai don no, nsaika ilo komtaks maika kapho" (I
> don't know, we don't
> >know your big brother [=3DKamloops Wawa/the
> shorthand writing]).
> >
> >That last bit is a clue that these words are being
> put in their mouths, I
> >think; the word kapho wasn't in noticeable use in
> that region.  It's a
> >dictionary word.
> >
> >Is this for comic effect (Sugarcane Tintin was
> heavy on the humor),
> >portraying Chilcotins as bad speakers of both
> Chinuk Wawa & English?
> >
> >Your ideas?
> >
> >--Dave R.
> >
> >To respond to the CHINOOK list, click 'REPLY ALL'.
> To respond privately
> to the sender of a message, click 'REPLY'.  Hayu
> masi!
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
=== message truncated ===

I swear I seen a twelve-foot-high hump-shouldered elk
with no antlers and swan neck - 19th C. miner, quoted
in "Lonesome Dromedary", The Big Book of the Weird Wild
West, Paradox Press, 1998.

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