mystery "French" in Wawa

[Robert Kentta]

hzenk at PDX.EDU wrote:
> Thanks Anthony and Robert for the background on Louie Fuller.  I 
> remember looking at Frachtenberg's Siletz Tillamook vocabulary a long 
> time ago, but didn't remember the Fuller family connection.  As I 
> recall, there was some disagreement between different sources as to 
> whether the Siletz River/Bay region was originally or earlier Alsean 
> (or Yakonan) speaking, or Tillamook speaking.  I have wondered whether 
> it might actually have been "mixed," perhaps undergoing language shift 
> from Alsean (spoken immediately to the south on Yaquina and Alsea 
> Bays) to Tillamook Salishan coming in (or marrying in) from the north.
>
> And thanks to everyone for their helpful comments on the words.  A 
> note with Harrington's "lident" citation says that "Lf" (Louie Fuller) 
> was not completely sure of the Jargon form.  On the other hand, the 
> same form is given as his father's word for 'dandelion' in Tillamook, 
> and if it was valid as Tillamook, it is a fair surmise that it would 
> have been valid as Jargon.  Michel Laframboise is someone a word like 
> that could have come from!  He was perhaps the HBC's best known 
> early-19th c. interpreter in the lower Columbia district.
>
> What I'm still wondering is how far back some of these words go.  Wawa 
> was by no means dead on the Oregon coast in 1942, so they could 
> conceivably have been relatively recently adopted.  Or do they go back 
> to the early 1800s, along with most of the French contribution to 
> Wawa?  Henry
>
> Quoting Anthony Grant <Granta at EDGEHILL.AC.UK>:
>
>> Folks:
>>
>> Just to add a bit to Robert Kentta's posting:
>>
>> Susan Fuller provides Leo Frahctenberg with a short vocabulary of  
>> Siletz Salishan (a variety of Tillamook).  Daisy Collins helped out  
>> her brother Miller Collins (who was a preacher in some Pentecostal  
>> church, I seem to recall) when Swadesh and Melton interviewed Miller 
>>  Collins and got Tututni data for the Penutian Vocabulary Survey.  
>> (I  know Tututni isn't Penutian, nor are Galice and Northern Paiute, 
>>  which they also recorded - but I'mglad they took the time.)
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>>>> Robert Kentta <rkentta at CTSI.NSN.US> 06/13/08 5:19 AM >>>
>> hzenk at PDX.EDU wrote:
>>> I was wondering whether anyone out on the list has a clue about the
>>> following three words, all collected as Wawa by John P. Harrington on
>>> the lower Columbia and Oregon Coast in 1942 (these are from the
>>> Harrington Papers, mf rolls 17 and 18):
>>>
>>> lident 'dandelion' (given by Louis Fuller, who also spoke Salmon R
>>> Tillamook).
>>>
>>> labins 'beans' (also Louis Fuller).
>>>
>>> lapeyl 'can (for cooking in)' (Joe Peter, a Cowlitz living at Yakima
>>> Res).
>>>
>>>
>>> All three words appear to have French articles, but I don't find
>>> anything like them in my French dictionary.  Are they Canadianisms?
>>> Local coinings?  (Since so many nouns for introduced items are from
>>> French, there may be a tendency to adopt the French article as a sort
>>> of noun-classifier for such words).  Henry
>>>
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>> Louie Fuller was from here at the Siletz Reservation, and was the son of
>> John Fuller, a Salmon River Tillamook headman. There were Clatsop
>> connections in the family (his mother?, grandmother???). There was
>> rumored to have been french ancestry, but that may have been a mistake -
>> or based on conjecture. Louie had a brother named
>> Michel/Michael/Machelle - I've seen all spellings. Michel LaFramboise of
>> HBC may have been familiar to the family in the early days. Louie
>> married a SW Oregon Athapascan woman from Siletz (Daisy Collins-Fuller),
>> and their children learned both Tillamook and Tututni languages - as
>> well as CJ. Harry Fuller lived to be fairly old, and passed here 6 or 8
>> years ago. He didn't speak any English until he went to school....said
>> he "had a hell of a time" trying to learn English.
>>
>> Robert Kentta
>> Siletz
>>
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Hmmm. Yes, lots to think about. Thanks Heiki.

I haven't done as much looking at the issue (as I should have before 
now)....but there are many questions and sub-questions there. There is 
plenty indication that there was mixed, overlapping or joint use of 
areas, especially the main part of the Siletz Valley (where the Siletz 
Agency and later town of Siletz developed). That is, at least by 
reservation times....but there are also many possible contributing 
factors: a more severe impact to the Siletz Band of Tillamooks' 
population - than the neighboring Yaquinas - as indicated by Theodore 
Talbot's 1840's note that the shores of Siletz Bay were lined with canoe 
burials and that there were just 9 men and their families still residing 
on the Siletz River.....The fact that the Siletz Tillamook dialect is 
said to be quite divergent from the other Tillamook dialects raises 
questions about influence/intermixing from the south over time - of 
course genetically - but possibly linguistically as well, or???? That 
may be a similar situation as is debated about the western Takelma 
villages having Athapascan sounding names....at least having the Ath. 
suffix "tun" = "place". the debate being whether Takelma were gradually 
replacing Athapascans, or they were being replaced to some degree. The 
Chasta Costa Dialect is also a little divergent, but supposedly as a 
result of more rapid speech and sounds collapsing - and sounding 
different as a result.

Back to the Yaquina and Siletz Band people though, it may have been the 
population declines (epidemics + violence from HBC retaliations ca. 
1832)... that led to all of the remaining or at least physically closest 
neighbors collapsing into more or less one unit (through marriage 
relations, through survival necessity, ???) by the time the reservation 
was established and other tribes moved in amongst. There is indication 
of shifting of locals on the Siletz to Salmon River and possibly some of 
those on Salmon River also moving to their Nestucca relatives' territory 
- probably temporarily - as the other tribes were brought in among them 
and violence peaked. (fighting at the D River - over fishery access 
between SW Coast Athapascans and the locals, ca 1856-57 and Tyee John 
and his sons shooting and killing a Siletz River man in 1857-58)... All 
of these things had at least temporary influence over people's habits, 
movements and associations.

Robert K.

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